[INTP] INTPs. How do you experience your Inferior Fe?.

[Cheetah]

Hm, well. Before I say anything, I'll preface this by saying 1) I'm young enough that my functions still change around a lot, 2) that because of social pressures I've had some weird function development, and 3) I'm not great at function-oriented introspection.

Ok, now that the "I fail" disclaimer's out of the way...

First, I relate a lot to what Jennifer and, to a lesser extent, blankpages said. It's not that I don't care, it's just that in some situations my caring is a much more disconnected way of caring. My way of comforting is "Well hey, look at this though. This means this, and that means that [good thing here] will probably happen," or something else of that nature.

The thing about little kids and the mentally ill I also agree with a lot. It's not that I dislike them, I just...don't know what to do with them. My Fe really can't operate without lots of backup from Ti and Ne, and without the intellectual connection that they like to form through Fe I'm pretty much lost with regard to how to deal with people.

I agree too about the "if you wanted help, you should have asked" thing. If I'm not talking with someone, I'm usually not really paying attention, so of course I didn't notice that you were doing something you might need help with.

And again, I agree about being able to chat with people fine, but having no clue what to do next. I have a ton of what I call "school friends," people I get along with at school but never do anything with outside of it, but almost no real friends. That's not because I don't want any, but just because I still can't figure out how you move on to being friends.

I've also never got the "INTPs have no emotions" thing. I tend to feel things strongly when I feel them, it's just that when I'm engaging Ti-Ne I'm really not aware of how I feel (does that sound weird? I dunno, it's just how I am. I don't notice how I feel unless it's really strong, or I've got nothing else to pay attention to).

I also do have trouble differentiating between a request and a demand. I guess because I usually avoid asking someone to do something unless I absolutely need them to do it, I assume that when someone asks me to do something, they absolutely want it done, rather than just a "Oh, if you have a chance, it'd be cool if you could do x for me, but if not, it's not a big deal." I could hear that sentence, and still somehow feel like I have to get it done.

As for how my Fe operates in its own right, I'll give an example.

When I have a problem with a friend, I'll try to avoid dealing with it as long as I can (if I don't think I'll like the outcome). Eventually, I try to confront them over it. If they listen, all goes well, I keep control, etc. However, if they try to avoid what I'm saying, I reach a tipping point. If they don't reverse course quickly, I lose it. What happens is my F controlling Ti, I guess. I don't shout or anything. I very quietly, very coldly, rip apart everything about them that I can think of that I have a problem with. Afterward I feel absolutely horrible, but once that tipping point is reached, I just don't care whether I'm being horrible or not, because as far as my Fe's concerned they deserve it.

Also noteworthy: except in those reactions, my Fe almost never has anything at all to do with my Ti. If I'm using Fe, it's virtually always in combination with Ne.

 

[Totenkindly]

Try escaping the interrogations of an ESTJ when you live under the same roof, and her authority.

Uggh. I'm soooooo sorry!

"You're an adult now, act like one."
"Yeah, well you're menopausal!"

...Never again will I make the same mistake. O__O;

You might as well rub raw hamburger all over your head and stick it in the mouth of a hungry lion. (What were you thinking? Rofl!)

I've heard about an unwritten rule, where if you've narrowed yourself down to IP/INP and can't decide from there, chances are you're INFP.

I've heard that, but I don't know if it's true. INTPs with strong N will challenge their own self-concept and thinking process, they'll see the possibility that their Ti might be flawed or they might be missing information; INFPs who have some good brainpower and pretty fair reasoning skills will not be sure how to measure their compassion vs reasoning.

I will say though, that I do not know how Fe manifests itself in me positively. I mostly associate its presence as negative, because it usually leads to negative thoughts, negative actions, etc. I don't even know how to fix it.

Fe can be a warning system -- I think Aelan or Elfinchilde once said that if I felt it rear up, it was playing "Momma Bear" for me... essentially my hackles raised because I was feeling violated, but rather than just reacting emotionally I could now bounce that ball back into Ti+Ne court and evaluate why I felt that way.

Fe if used proactively can set up boundaries that protect us. The problem with INTP having an inferior Fe is that we avoid using it when it could be proactive; since we loathe it instinctively, we only use it as the "spider sense" when we feel someone else might want to demand something from us and we disappear, or we lash out emotionally... we use it very defensively, and with a loose grip, as if it will burn us.

But Fe is like a rules system that defines people's responsibilities to each other depending on the type of relationship they have; if we learn the rules and expectations based on relationship types (parent, child, spouse, lover, coworker, neighbor, etc) and are aware of what the "fair" expectations are, we can use those to put boundaries on our relationships up front and also to give us strength to reject an obligation someone might be putting on us. IOW, we can learn how to play the game to our advantage, rather than futilely trying to avoid all social obligation altogether.

Again, INTP tries to avoid as a strategy (INFP will veer between avoidance and compliance, usually); but if you can't avoid a particular conflict OR if the cost of avoiding the conflict is too high even if successful, then it makes more sense to take things head on, proactively.

My I and T functions are strong preferences. Maybe that helps me say "no, fuck you" when some people make requests of me. I have had peers take advantage of my willingness to help in group projects during middle school, and since then I've learned to stand my ground. My default now is to say "I'll see what I can do", or "no guarantees".

Yeah, I've had issues because my actual order (although "P" isn't really a function) is NPIT. My T's still good, but I lead with N... this creates some problems for in terms of flexing far too much. I spent most of my life doing the "I" thing, to avoid family; but once I was married with a family of my own for a number of years, I had no choice but to engage and build social ties, and I used N to lead, and since I couldn't stand up for myself or draw lines, I felt taken advantage of and obligated unnecessarily.

I like your answer... that's exactly what I think is effective. And most people do this naturally -- they review their obligations, then give a realistic answer. For some reason, some of us (INTP or not) don't feel comfortable giving a "fair response" and instead get aggressive, start avoiding, or comply far too much and enslave themselves and then become miserable or passive-aggressive.

 

[Blank]

I find this thread very informative and interesting, and I can really empathize with Eric B, on valuing innocence in women. As a matter of fact, most of the women I've felt enamored with I've perceived as being innocent or pure.

Definitely a good measure's worth of introspection is needed for me at least.

 

[INFtha14]

Uggh. I'm soooooo sorry!



You might as well rub raw hamburger all over your head and stick it in the mouth of a hungry lion. (What were you thinking? Rofl!)



I've heard that, but I don't know if it's true. INTPs with strong N will challenge their own self-concept and thinking process, they'll see the possibility that their Ti might be flawed or they might be missing information; INFPs who have some good brainpower and pretty fair reasoning skills will not be sure how to measure their compassion vs reasoning.



Fe can be a warning system -- I think Aelan or Elfinchilde once said that if I felt it rear up, it was playing "Momma Bear" for me... essentially my hackles raised because I was feeling violated, but rather than just reacting emotionally I could now bounce that ball back into Ti+Ne court and evaluate why I felt that way.

Fe if used proactively can set up boundaries that protect us. The problem with INTP having an inferior Fe is that we avoid using it when it could be proactive; since we loathe it instinctively, we only use it as the "spider sense" when we feel someone else might want to demand something from us and we disappear, or we lash out emotionally... we use it very defensively, and with a loose grip, as if it will burn us.

But Fe is like a rules system that defines people's responsibilities to each other depending on the type of relationship they have; if we learn the rules and expectations based on relationship types (parent, child, spouse, lover, coworker, neighbor, etc) and are aware of what the "fair" expectations are, we can use those to put boundaries on our relationships up front and also to give us strength to reject an obligation someone might be putting on us. IOW, we can learn how to play the game to our advantage, rather than futilely trying to avoid all social obligation altogether.

Again, INTP tries to avoid as a strategy (INFP will veer between avoidance and compliance, usually); but if you can't avoid a particular conflict OR if the cost of avoiding the conflict is too high even if successful, then it makes more sense to take things head on, proactively.



Yeah, I've had issues because my actual order (although "P" isn't really a function) is NPIT. My T's still good, but I lead with N... this creates some problems for in terms of flexing far too much. I spent most of my life doing the "I" thing, to avoid family; but once I was married with a family of my own for a number of years, I had no choice but to engage and build social ties, and I used N to lead, and since I couldn't stand up for myself or draw lines, I felt taken advantage of and obligated unnecessarily.

I like your answer... that's exactly what I think is effective. And most people do this naturally -- they review their obligations, then give a realistic answer. For some reason, some of us (INTP or not) don't feel comfortable giving a "fair response" and instead get aggressive, start avoiding, or comply far too much and enslave themselves and then become miserable or passive-aggressive.

hahaha that's funny.

:O

the Fe "warning system" paragraph and " if used proactively" paragraph sound too close to home hehe. I think i've been stuck in that spider sense being hyper alert to the possibilities of what someone *generally* could be expecting of me.

The next paragraph I could definitely see how I have Fe inferior, my biggest problem has been accepting my role now that my father has passed with my mother. Sometimes i think that's what triggers me cause of the whole Fe relationship awareness "fair expectations".

I have been learning to use those boundaries actually cause i've just went through the past few months where my sisters tried to get me to do something for them. *manipulate; mother would participate in trying to make me bend*.

I've been going through it all thinking hmm...this isn't my problem, they got themselves in this mess, why should i be feeling like i should be responsible for them when they knew they would need her to be in childcare awhile ago *their child*. I figure i do my part in this family by helping my mother out that's it. It's "unfair" to ask of me to also take on my sister's problems which also could of prevented if she would of done it in time to get her child into said program . Definitely had the money and such.

Fe rules have definitely tripped me up with this whole scene these passed few years :O. And when i feel some obligations that are not mine or would not of been mine if he was still here, there is that little part of me that gets angry and resentful. I'm lately trying to learn that well that he's gone, my role is still daughter it just takes on a different flavor. I say in my head " i won't play his role, i'm still a "daughter".

Definitely relating needing to practice drawing lines .
How do you evaluate with Ti-Ne why you felt a certain way?
Thanks jennifer and everybody .

Also i do withdrawl in some situations like for instance i was having plans with my very possible ISTJ friend sunday to go out for a bite then watch football with her family *we've done this before lol*. Well long story short I was told " i think i misunderstood you, the games are a family thing. But we can still do lunch. sorry. "

I immediately felt offended and just said in the email
" oh :O
I was just going to email anyway cause this weekends kind of crazy anyway so maybe we can do it some other time" etc. "

I'm withdrawing here. Just thought i'd show an example . I'll be fine and over it by next week with out even having to talk it out. Cause i know it wasn't personal just i was offended and my chi will be off for sunday.

Very true on that last one with how we all do that. I could see that in me and everyone around XD.

 

[Totenkindly]

he Fe "warning system" paragraph and " if used proactively" paragraph sound too close to home hehe. I think i've been stuck in that spider sense being hyper alert to the possibilities of what someone *generally* could be expecting of me.

Yes, I'm very hypervigilant. For a long part of my life, I would get upset if anyone just ASKED me to do something... because I felt like I couldn't say no without suffering their wrath. I basically did informal self-CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) on myself, to get over it, as I've done with lots of my issues as I work through them. Now I can say no when I think it necessary; sometimes the person really doesn't care so my paranoia was unfounded, other times they really were trying to manipulate but I no longer care ultimately, in regards to maintaining control of my own life.

I am still very alert to possibilities. Sometimes this is bad, if I am not getting enough information in to cross out some responses; for example, if I'm feeling bad about my work output and my boss doesn't talk to me for a few days and I hear my coworkers whispering around me, one possibility is that everyone's annoyed at me and I might get fired... so then I feel a little paranoid. Once I get more information, though, to run against that (a bit of praise or a positive interaction or getting something done), then I feel better. Ne in this case can make someone vulnerable to wild imagination, if Ti can't find information to evaluate the fear against.

I have been learning to use those boundaries actually cause i've just went through the past few months where my sisters tried to get me to do something for them. *manipulate; mother would participate in trying to make me bend*. I've been going through it all thinking hmm...this isn't my problem, they got themselves in this mess, why should i be feeling like i should be responsible for them when they knew they would need her to be in childcare awhile ago *their child*. I figure i do my part in this family by helping my mother out that's it. It's "unfair" to ask of me to also take on my sister's problems which also could of prevented if she would of done it in time to get her child into said program . Definitely had the money and such.

Good, that's the sort of rationale you need to use to 'evaluate' requests. Basically, like most women, you want to see yourself (and be seen) as a "good daughter" and also probably want to be there for your mom, since she's your mom, and to express that openly, you might want to do some of the things that daughters do for moms; but they can exploit those feelings and sort of coerce you to help when it's not productive or they're taking advantage.

So what you did was correct: Evaluate the request, then draw lines based on what you perceive THEIR responsibility to YOU is (and in this case you determined they were not being fair or were abusing their relationship to you to coerce you).

How do you evaluate with Ti-Ne why you felt a certain way?

I do sort of what you did above: I use N to brainstorm a list of possibilities for "What's going on" and gather information, and then I use Ti to determine the probability of each being true + what the best "Through Line" would be to reach the other side. Then I have my answer.

I've recently added another stage; I compare it back to my Fe instincts and see if the answer aligns with my values and sense of self, can I be happy living with the probable outcome (as Ti+Ne has calculated) with that answer? Then I decide how to respond.

For one example:

Last summer I had a falling out with my mother... a really BAD falling out. I felt like she really screwed me over; however, she did it mainly through ignorance, not because she hated me, and she usually means well. (Religion was part of the equation.) I could understand why she had the response she did, intellectually; but I was having a severe "anger" response because I felt like I had been violated.

Because of the stress of our conflict, she started having heart palpitations and was told she had to see a specialist.

Part of me didn't care; I blamed the palpitations on her ignorant approach to our disagreement and her choice to try to hide things from me because she was scared of conflict and couldn't talk openly to me even though i was totally willing. On the other hand... she was my mother, she was ignorant rather than mean, and she had always done right by me when I was a child. Realistically she had been doing the best she could... although her best wasn't so hot and should (I think) have been better.

So when I sat and thought about things, I moved away from a purely intellectual response vs a totally kneejerk "screw you" response -- I realized that, despite it all, she was my mom, and I wanted to make sure she was okay ... especially considering my dad wasn't doing squat to help her. I chose to volunteer to drive her a few hours to the specialist; that was the answer I decided I could live with. I'd rather take her and make sure she was okay, than ignore her and risk her dying, etc. Because I chose it, I wasn't angry or bitter or resentful about it; and during that trip, since she knew I loved her despite everything, we were able to engage on the issue we were in disagreement on and made some progress.

But I had to sort through a bunch of garbage first, rather than just reacting to it.

Also i do withdrawl in some situations like for instance i was having plans with my very possible ISTJ friend sunday to go out for a bite then watch football with her family *we've done this before lol*. Well long story short I was told " i think i misunderstood you, the games are a family thing. But we can still do lunch. sorry. "

I immediately felt offended and just said in the email
" oh :O I was just going to email anyway cause this weekends kind of crazy anyway so maybe we can do it some other time" etc. "

That's a valid way to "dodge" the situation. The problem is simply that the relationship can't deepen if you're dodging discussion of the issue, ultimately; so at some point you have to accept that your relationship will remain where it is now or you'll have to explain (if it's a pattern with your friend) why their response bothered you.

I'm withdrawing here. Just thought i'd show an example . I'll be fine and over it by next week with out even having to talk it out. Cause i know it wasn't personal just i was offended and my chi will be off for sunday.

Yes, if it's not a pattern, then "sucking it up" is a perfectly fine response. The problems come either in reacting to a fluke disappointment as if it's a pattern that must be resolved or in avoiding patterns as if they were flukes. You just have to be honest with yourself when you analyze things about whether or not it's a pattern.

 

[INFtha14]

... that's the sort of rationale you need to use to 'evaluate' requests. Basically, like most women, you want to see yourself (and be seen) as a "good daughter" and also probably want to be there for your mom, since she's your mom, and to express that openly, you might want to do some of the things that daughters do for moms; but they can exploit those feelings and sort of coerce you to help when it's not productive or they're taking advantage.

Definitely, right on .

So what you did was correct: Evaluate the request, then draw lines based on what you perceive THEIR responsibility to YOU is (and in this case you determined they were not being fair or were abusing their relationship to you to coerce you).

Thanks . They definitely like to coerce me but there learning more and more that they won't get far doing that.

For one example:

Last summer I had a falling out with my mother... a really BAD falling out. ...Because of the stress of our conflict, she started having heart palpitations and was told she had to see a specialist.... when I sat and thought about things, I moved away from a purely intellectual response vs a totally kneejerk "screw you" response -- I realized that, despite it all, she was my mom, and I wanted to make sure she was okay ... ...Because I chose it, I wasn't angry or bitter or resentful about it; and during that trip, since she knew I loved her despite everything, we were able to engage on the issue we were in disagreement on and made some progress. But I had to sort through a bunch of garbage first, rather than just reacting to it.

wow...sounds very similar to the way I have came to conclusions with conflicts and such with my mother. Just like the having severe anger response. And how you went through the "despite it all she was my mom" part to bring yourself back sounds alot like what i've been doing with my mother.

I'd sometimes cry just from the realization of how much i care for my mother and how i can be such a pain *XD* in that state of mind.

Very good example. Do you know what type your mother was?

That's a valid way to "dodge" the situation. The problem is simply that the relationship can't deepen if you're dodging discussion of the issue, ultimately; so at some point you have to accept that your relationship will remain where it is now or you'll have to explain (if it's a pattern with your friend) why their response bothered you.

hmm...good point there. I just don't like causing a ruckess and i also was contemplating erasing the message i sent her and try to tell her just a teeny bit of how it came across but i didn't know where to start hehe. I usually can do stuff like that with my mother but that's usually cause we get into bigger arguements about things that actually need to be discussed. I feel like to me this was just a misunderstanding on my part. But i think you got a very good point there about not dodging it if it'd be a pattern. Thank you Jennifer.

For it bothering me, I'm thinking it bothered me cause one: I've been at her house on a sunday for the football game 2-3 times before and two: her tone came off rather blunt as if we were strangers. Just seemed unusual. I would of not got hurt by it if it was stated like "parents work and sunday is there day at home to just relax and watch football" It wouldn't of sounded harsh and it would make sense .

Yes, if it's not a pattern, then "sucking it up" is a perfectly fine response. The problems come either in reacting to a fluke disappointment as if it's a pattern that must be resolved or in avoiding patterns as if they were flukes. You just have to be honest with yourself when you analyze things about whether or not it's a pattern.

It seems she does do it as a pattern sometimes but usually is willing if you tell her how her reactions affect you to work on it. And doesn't happen "alot" per se, just sometimes my besty can be moody XD. My thing is i don't want conflict i would just want to address and have it be understood/heard out. No fuss, no moss XD. But that's not very realistic of me either some people are more demonstrative.

Thanks Jennifer .

 

[kathara]

I let the Ne do the dirty work.

 

[INFtha14]

I let the Ne do the dirty work.

hehe.

Hi Kathara.

 

[Totenkindly]

wow...sounds very similar to the way I have came to conclusions with conflicts and such with my mother. Just like the having severe anger response. And how you went through the "despite it all she was my mom" part to bring yourself back sounds alot like what i've been doing with my mother. I'd sometimes cry just from the realization of how much i care for my mother and how i can be such a pain *XD* in that state of mind. Very good example. Do you know what type your mother was?

My mother is a very stereotypical ISFJ with literally no T sense -- she's all feeling and traditional. Her thinking is so bad that the fact that she was an RN for 40 years sometimes scares me, considering she was dealing with dosages for people but had no ability to think outside her programming.

So in this case, it was frustrating because there was no good way to reach any sort of rational agreement, she just responds out of her values and it was up to me to take it or leave it OR come up with some flex on my part to make it work.

hmm...good point there. I just don't like causing a ruckess and i also was contemplating erasing the message i sent her and try to tell her just a teeny bit of how it came across but i didn't know where to start hehe. I usually can do stuff like that with my mother but that's usually cause we get into bigger arguements about things that actually need to be discussed. I feel like to me this was just a misunderstanding on my part. But i think you got a very good point there about not dodging it if it'd be a pattern.

Yeah. I've learned that some things are not worth fighting about and some are -- and it's important to know the difference and then respond correctly.

For it bothering me, I'm thinking it bothered me cause one: I've been at her house on a sunday for the football game 2-3 times before and two: her tone came off rather blunt as if we were strangers. Just seemed unusual. I would of not got hurt by it if it was stated like "parents work and sunday is there day at home to just relax and watch football" It wouldn't of sounded harsh and it would make sense .

That's true. I have had reactions from people that were that way. I realized that some people really suck at thinking about context; I don't know if it is N related, but N's are much better with context. In this context, her words came across as rude, but probably to her, she thought she was just giving you information... and technically she was, the context just added another layer that took her neutral answer and left it seeming sort of rude to you or like an emotional slap.

It seems she does do it as a pattern sometimes but usually is willing if you tell her how her reactions affect you to work on it. And doesn't happen "alot" per se, just sometimes my besty can be moody XD. My thing is i don't want conflict i would just want to address and have it be understood/heard out. No fuss, no moss XD. But that's not very realistic of me either some people are more demonstrative.

Relationships are fun, ain't they? I wish things were less complicated. Especially when two very different people start interacting, it gets sort of hairy sometimes.

I let the Ne do the dirty work.

My Ne is lighter than air.

 

[INFtha14]

I will reply to your post in alittle bit Jennifer , I had it all written out and ready to hit send then Internet explore freezes up on me lol.

 

[INFtha14]

My mother is a very stereotypical ISFJ with literally no T sense -- she's all feeling and traditional. Her thinking is so bad that the fact that she was an RN for 40 years sometimes scares me, considering she was dealing with dosages for people but had no ability to think outside her programming.

So in this case, it was frustrating because there was no good way to reach any sort of rational agreement, she just responds out of her values and it was up to me to take it or leave it OR come up with some flex on my part to make it work.

. outside her programming as in Si Fe or?


Yeah. I've learned that some things are not worth fighting about and some are -- and it's important to know the difference and then respond correctly.

right on Jennifer. That's the tricky part hehe.


That's true. I have had reactions from people that were that way. I realized that some people really suck at thinking about context; I don't know if it is N related, but N's are much better with context. In this context, her words came across as rude, but probably to her, she thought she was just giving you information... and technically she was, the context just added another layer that took her neutral answer and left it seeming sort of rude to you or like an emotional slap.

Relationships are fun, ain't they? I wish things were less complicated. Especially when two very different people start interacting, it gets sort of hairy sometimes.

That's what's nice about MBTI and this forum. It helps me to understand where the person is coming, where the communication gap is etc, i love it . I think with MBTI it's not bible but it has helped hugely in my relationship with my mother and where our communication gap is and more.
I think i've been much more productive too cause of understanding the model in accordance with my mom and i's relationship.

Especially with trying on the Fe inferior and hearing all the descriptions of how Fe inferior is experienced, especially in a grip. I noticed i related alot to how you Jennifer dealt with your Fe and your particular situation with your mother. And how you got out of it " she is my mother, always done right by me etc".

I had a similar way of reaching conclusion of rising above it like my mother's innocent in all this, she didn't ask for her husband to die, she didn't ask for her other two daughter to try to manipulate and use her at every chance, she's an innocent bystander in all this as i am. That's when i realized she actually needs me and is not out to get anything from me as my sisters are.

I guess that's why i've been so eager to figure all this out cause it will actually help me live the best life i can and i recognize the inferior as a key to the mint as Jung pretty much hints at hehe.

Heavily leaning towards Inferior Fe compared to Te now.


My Ne is lighter than air.

hehehe.

 

[fill]

I feel I have a little say in this topic as my Ne-ness is really starting to kick in for some reason (I rearranged my room today, something I've never done in my life. What made it even more interesting is that I did it out of nowhere on pure impulse.)

So, I used to have auxiliary Fe that has died down like a weak storm, and I used to experience it in a very abundant way. Simply walking outside would give me certain "feelings" or "moods" in the present moment. If I looked into someone's eyes, they were like beams of energy that would cast their very mood on me (a good and bad thing). I still get this, and honestly, I've been smothering my Fe with Ti because Fe tends to give me a lot of stress that turns to wasted energy.

With less Fe, I'm still able to realize what is appropriate in social situations, and I still feel I know what's good for the greater multitude of people on the earth, but I'm not obsessed with... Okay, I'm going to have to stop mid-sentence. I'm not really sure what's different; there's something different, and I can't put my finger on it. I'm definitely more reserved emotionally, and I don't see myself as someone who can sympathize with another's problems, but rather someone who can give a good rational "fix" or encourage them through my view of the world- not exactly using any emotional appeal. A friend of mine kept saying, "I'll try..." and a few months ago, I would have said, "Sure, do that. Always try," but this time I said, "Stop trying and do it. You can do it. Don't underestimate your ability."

I see it as a completely different way of thinking.

As a matter of fact, most of the women I've felt enamored with I've perceived as being innocent or pure.

Ah, I had this when more of a conventional INFJ, and I still have it now, but... man, that burns you. Don't get too obsessed with it. I was really into a girl that I thought was perfect, then I found out she shoplifted and did some... other rather inappropriate things in the past and currently. It killed me. I almost stopped talking to her.

 

[kathara]

hehe.

Hi Kathara.

Hello.

 

[INFtha14]

Hello.

:hi:

greetings .

 

[Unique]

Besides often enjoying each other in conversation INFPs and INTPs usually are very different from each other (they aren't in different temperaments for nothing)

As for how I experience my inferior Fe? It's sorta like when I know the situation requires it, you know when no matter what else you do Ti, Ne, Si you will cause things to go down badly unless you say the right thing

So what happens? You say the right thing but it comes out really awkwardly and almost to the point of seeming fake (wannabe Fe? or us intps just don't trust it? )

It also comes out in love in our innocent sorta way, I heard a website say that INTPs experience love that is "child like in its purity"

It's basically as you would expect, something we use that comes out underdeveloped and looks strange to those who use Fe dominantly

Another example is when you really violate an INTPs principles, when an INTP looses it you WILL know, when an INTP has become so frustrated and nothing can be solved logically, all patterns have gone out the window and the Si cracks about how stupid someone is for "not using the correct wording" are gone all thats left is a really ticked off underdeveloped Fe that wants to destroy everything

It is inferior though so most of the time I'm not using it

 

[INFtha14]

Besides often enjoying each other in conversation INFPs and INTPs usually are very different from each other (they aren't in different temperaments for nothing)

As for how I experience my inferior Fe? It's sorta like when I know the situation requires it, you know when no matter what else you to Ti, Ne, Si you will cause things to go down badly unless you say the right thing

So what happens? You say the right thing but it comes out really awkwardly and almost to the point of seeming fake (wannabe Fe? or us intps just don't trust it? )

It also comes out in love in our innocent sorta way, I heard a website say that INTPs experience love that is "child like in its purity"

It's basically as you would expect, something we use that comes out underdeveloped and looks strange to those who use Fe dominantly

Another example is when you really violate an INTPs principles, when an INTP looses it you WILL know, when an INTP has become so frustrated and nothing can be solved logically, all patterns have gone out the window and the Si cracks about how stupid someone is for "not using the correct wording" are gone all thats left is a really ticked off underdeveloped Fe that wants to destroy everything

It is inferior though so most of the time I'm not using it

right Unique. Defining the difference is for me as i'm still learning is the hard part cause their both Dominant Introverted Judgers with Extraverted Percieiving(Ne).

This is from a post of mine but from the 4temps by linda v berens.
" NF = meaning and significance, unique identity, search for who you are etc.

NT = mastery and self-control. Knowledge and competence."

This post below is about the Animus, does this sound like how you INTPs experience Fe expression when it's in a negative light especially by the same sex? This is for INTP women to answer as i want to hear it from the female perspective.

well i was thinking of the animus/anima thing and how it's suppose to be the opposite sex. Like for male it's female and vice versa. it's also behaviors we project onto others as we recognize them as our weak point.

Long story short, i'm wondering if this can also affect my opinion of other women who seem to use very covert techniques. I seem to find them annoying and manipulative.

Even if it's be portrayed in a show like say everybody loves raymond, Raymond's mother has always struck a cord with me as a controlling,nosy pain in the booty but did have the right intentions just went about in the most annoying ways.

I'll find myself saying or thinking XD " instead of sulking and expecting your "sons" to read your mind, why don't you just say something? It just seems inefficient to me to keep people guessing and having to tip toe around your not feeling appreciated.

Also her character "marie barone" will erk the daylights out of me "" when she pulls the "i'm your mother so i'm entitled to blah blah blah...attitude" card *seriously gets me all flustered* and it seems like pulling rank to manipulate and regain control.

I end up thinking " why would you do that to your sons and just cause your mother your not entitled to anything special per se. It's more like " you chose to take on the responsibility of having me as your child, so don't you think it's your duty to fulfill it? so why make me feel bad just cause your doing what you as a mother should be doing?

Making sure her child is safe? It makes me so mad when a mother pulls rank over her child(ren) just to regain control cause of "all she's done for them" seems fake and manipulative/make me sick.

This seems to bring out a likely Fe inferior/animus. Not just pertaining to what i think is masculine, but what i think a women shouldn't do and that i find really false/trickery *negative Fe*.

I can appreciate positive Fe but sometimes even that makes me feel stupid or inadequet while being appreciative of this new found insight but i feel "inferior" *word just popped in my head, not influenced from the inferior function name XD.I do feel a step below the person and feel as if i'm not as loved cause i don't possess that finesse or skill of Fe. It really eats at me.*

So INTP woman, do you tend to get irritated by the same sex portraying the negatives especially of your inferior? I find i do so i'm just trying to see if this is a factor of Fe inferior in the INTP woman.

And do any of you relate to this?
Just compared to NF search for meaning and significance which i do , do but i think the pure need to engage my mind was what drawed me to MBTI in the first place, finding myself is a plus i'm thinking. It's not like i had a need to find out who i am i just had a real deep curiousity about personality theory. I go more into it on my blog but that's the gist of it .

Thanks again all of you .

 

[Eric B]

Another example is when you really violate an INTPs principles, when an INTP looses it you WILL know, when an INTP has become so frustrated and nothing can be solved logically, all patterns have gone out the window and the Si cracks about how stupid someone is for "not using the correct wording" are gone all thats left is a really ticked off underdeveloped Fe that wants to destroy everything

It is inferior though so most of the time I'm not using it

If it wants to destroy things, that sounds like its shadow, demonic Fi. Berens even renames the "Demon" archetype "Destructive". But again, the line between one and the other is sometimes fuzzy.

Even if it's be portrayed in a show like say everybody loves raymond, Raymond's mother has always struck a cord with me as a controlling,nosy pain in the booty but did have the right intentions just went about in the most annoying ways.

I'll find myself saying or thinking XD " instead of sulking and expecting your "sons" to read your mind, why don't you just say something? It just seems inefficient to me to keep people guessing and having to tip toe around your not feeling appreciated.

Also her character "marie barone" will erk the daylights out of me "" when she pulls the "i'm your mother so i'm entitled to blah blah blah...attitude" card *seriously gets me all flustered* and it seems like pulling rank to manipulate and regain control.

I end up thinking " why would you do that to your sons and just cause your mother your not entitled to anything special per se. It's more like " you chose to take on the responsibility of having me as your child, so don't you think it's your duty to fulfill it? so why make me feel bad just cause your doing what you as a mother should be doing?

Making sure her child is safe? It makes me so mad when a mother pulls rank over her child(ren) just to regain control cause of "all she's done for them" seems fake and manipulative/make me sick.

This seems to bring out a likely Fe inferior/animus. Not just pertaining to what i think is masculine, but what i think a women shouldn't do and that i find really false/trickery *negative Fe*.

I can appreciate positive Fe but sometimes even that makes me feel stupid or inadequet while being appreciative of this new found insight but i feel "inferior" *word just popped in my head, not influenced from the inferior function name XD.I do feel a step below the person and feel as if i'm not as loved cause i don't possess that finesse or skill of Fe. It really eats at me.*

OK, trying to make sure I understand. You're going by INxP, but "trying on" the T side (INTP) in this instance?
Fe is anima for INTP, but it is one place down, as Opposing Personality for INFP. Some of your reactions sound like they could be Oppositional. (defending the ego through the opposite attitude to the dominant. Fi "values" would be backed up by Fe in this case, and it seems the character is violating values). As I have been pointing out, anima/animus will be more vulnerable, while OP will be more aggressive. Though you do mention feeling inferior with it, and Berens says that we often project "shoulds" and such with the inferior.

I just ask, because it can be hard to tell some of these archetypes apart, and you do seem to be sitting between those two types with the X.

 

[INFtha14]

If it wants to destroy things, that sounds like its shadow, demonic Fi. Berens even renames the "Demon" archetype "Destructive". But again, the line between one and the other is sometimes fuzzy. OK, trying to make sure I understand. You're going by INxP, but "trying on" the T side (INTP) in this instance?
Fe is anima for INTP, but it is one place down, as Opposing Personality for INFP. Some of your reactions sound like they could be Oppositional. (defending the ego through the opposite attitude to the dominant. Fi "values" would be backed up by Fe in this case, and it seems the character is violating values). As I have been pointing out, anima/animus will be more vulnerable, while OP will be more aggressive. Though you do mention feeling inferior with it, and Berens says that we often project "shoulds" and such with the inferior.

I just ask, because it can be hard to tell some of these archetypes apart, and you do seem to be sitting between those two types with the X.

Hi Eric B .
hmm....oppositional.
Can you tell me more about oppositional Fe? .
I put a lower t just cause it does seem to be one of my problems.
in "was that really me?" Naomi states below.
Pg. 49-50 Character of the inferior function
Tunnel Vision: An important characteristic of all inferior functions is tunnel vision. This is what makes whatever is being experienced seem real and believable. We can compare this with how we would react to the same thing when we are not in the grip. We think, “ how could I have believed that?” or “ I must have been blind not to have seen that!”.
When we focus on a limited piece of reality, what we perceive or conclude may certainly be true, valid, logical, and real. But it’s import and impact are likely to be out of proportion because all the information that lies outside the tunnel is not available to us. This larger body of data or thought usually tempers the perception or judgment made within the tunnel. The issue on which we focus when in the grip may appropriately be seen as trivial or without substance when viewed in a broader context.

How would Te be inferior. I read it in her book it just doesn't click for me like Fe inferior does hmm...

 

[INTP]

No idea, Fe is my weakest function.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

My Fe seeks out fairness, balance, symmetry. I could care less about people's emotional well being.