[INTP] INTPs. How do you experience your Inferior Fe?.

[INFtha14]

Hi INTPs :hi:

I hope you don't mind but i have a question as i'm currently reading naomi quenk's book called " Was that really me?".

Have any of you read this book? Did you feel it was helpful in
figuring out your inferior?

Can you share with me how you experience your Inferior function?

When under stress?

How do you know when it's being triggered?

Maybe could any of you help me understand
if you might have thought you were INFP
what distinguishes Inferior Fe from Inferior Te?

I'm hoping for this to be a clarity giving thread that will provide
insight into a very hard to define part of MBTI for me and probably
others. Some concrete examples would be great too if possible .


////
Alittle ditty on why i'm asking is just cause my T-F is apparently very balanced. Almost too balanced and i can relate to the objectivity of the INTP in relationships/life sorta.

Just having the hardest time figuring out if I use Te inferior or Fe inferior.
I could see both. I just relooked over her book and have been thinking about the loss of my father due to cancer when i was 17. And also about the process i had to go through to get through it and the pain i was feeling.

I just remembered saying before i plunged into emotional waters
"this will be good for me" "the way out is through so..." *naturally i came to the conclusion i needed to go through and work through all the pain i was feeling cause realized if i didn't i wouldn't heal.
"it's only going to make it worse if don't deal with this now"

It took me three-four years after reexamining myself and my life, where i was headed, to get to complete healing *or reached acceptance at least*. I wouldn't be able to sleep, had major anxiety *curled up on my bed, scared to be alone at night as that's when all the memories came back or thought's would wonder. Sadness would become evident etc. Which lead to the conclusion mentioned above
"this won't stop if i don't face it and i want it to stop"

Well that's the gist of it, I won't keep babbling i just wanted to give some background as that i think might be what tips the scales for me.

So INTPs if you don't mind me asking I'm curious how you experience you Inferior Function Fe. Especially if you went through a real hard grieving stage from losing someone and had to reevaluate your life etc. if so did you develop Fi from it? *the grieving*

.

Thanks in advance. It's appreiciated very much .

 

[Blank]

I don't really know if this is it, because I'm not really that proficient at telling how individual functions work separately, but I can usually tell how a person is really feeling with just a glance.

It kind of amazes me how blind people are to that.

Oh yeah, I also utterly fail at comforting people when they're feeling sad. D;

 

[INFtha14]

I don't really know if this is it, because I'm not really that proficient at telling how individual functions work separately, but I can usually tell how a person is really feeling with just a glance.

It kind of amazes me how blind people are to that.

Oh yeah, I also utterly fail at comforting people when they're feeling sad. D;

Hey Blank :hi:

Cute icon hehe.

Do you mind if ask how you know what a person
is feeling with just a glance? You mean by reading
the person? or a vibe?

I really am curious about you INTPs
and it seems so hard to seperate them from INFPs .

Pretty much i want to understand what makes
you guys tick XD. Get inside the INTP head alittle bit.
Hopefully that's not intimidating heh .

Thanks Blank .

 

[Blank]

Haha, I guess I would have to say that I can read facial features really well when I'm in person (those online picture-only tests are hard and some are damn-near indiscernible.)

Although, speaking of this vibe thing, I usually DO get a "vibe" about what kind of person they are--although that may just be a subconscious social clue based on what clothes a person is wearing; however, I've always been able to do this fairly easily.

Then again, I don't really think I'm an average INTP, because I've got a really high Te and can't shut the fuck up unless if people are talking about nothing.

 

[paperoceans]

I'm not sure, but my reactions to emotional situations is typically the complete opposite of what it should be. For instance, when a family member dies I'm all smiles and giddy. It's not that I did not love this person, but I have a strange way of expressing myself. For instance, when I am concentrating/thinking I look "lost" or confused--my twenty million managers used to complain that I had a "lost" look on my face when I was just thinking. Or when I'm angry it sounds like I'm crying so everyone asks me if I'm OK... I don't know. I really need to work on that. I live with two ENFJs, I don't know why I'm so out of whack. I do not know if this is related to my Fe, but I suck at displaying my "true" emotions.

Or I could just be crazy. I don't know. I'm just blabbing now since I've been studying all day long and I feel like my head is going to explode. No more words D:

 

[Forgetful Functor]

For instance, when I am concentrating/thinking I look "lost" or confused--my twenty million managers used to complain that I had a "lost" look on my face when I was just thinking.

I walk around town like this all the time. Going to work or class. Sometimes a thought strikes me so much that I stop abruptly, and I'm not entirely sure why I do this, but I usually catch myself and hastily amble on. Maybe it's because I'm used to pacing while I think?

As for emotions, I feel them quite intensely but I find that I need time to integrate them. I also associate emotions very closely to places, especially outdoor spaces where I've spent lots of time doing aforementioned integration, thinking, exploration, and building connections to other people.

 

[Orangey]

I always kind of thought that my inferior Fe was acting up (under stress) when I would suddenly become paranoid about what others thought of me. I would somehow randomly get the idea that someone didn't like me, and I'd feel sulky about it until I regained my senses. I would also get paranoid that my friends were ignoring me or willfully being mean to me, and I'd be a little angry about it for a while until realizing that it was just a phantom of my brain.

Does anyone else experience inferior Fe this way?

 

[Forgetful Functor]

I always kind of thought that my inferior Fe was acting up (under stress) when I would suddenly become paranoid about what others thought of me. I would somehow randomly get the idea that someone didn't like me, and I'd feel sulky about it until I regained my senses. I would also get paranoid that my friends were ignoring me or willfully being mean to me, and I'd be a little angry about it for a while until realizing that it was just a phantom of my brain.

Does anyone else experience inferior Fe this way?

I used to be quite paranoid socially. It can be conquered, though I think it's safe to say that this typically happens later than INTPs. That's okay, we just learn about these things a little differently. The first key is reason -- understand that your perceptions affect mannerisms. Thinking nervous thoughts causes you to project nervousness. If you are confident, you project confidence, therefore nervous thoughts are irrational. Another boon is patient friends. Use your quirks to charm people and then learn from them how to integrate into the greater social group. Don't feel ashamed to ask questions (the best way is to ask totally unabashedly) if you need to. My friends had to demonstrate for me many times before I could do a 'cool' handshake; I still fuck it up now and again but the fact that I don't care makes it a total non-issue. Once you realize that everyone around you is coping with the same negative emotional reactions in their own way, you will have found your will to transcend them.

The number of bonds that I have been able to build through social confidence I have found in my young adult life is invigorating, and these bonds have opened my eyes to a whole world of human connection.

 

[dorcus0]

My Fe is very underdeveloped. For perspective, I'm only 18 years old, just started college.

My "emotional" reaction to everything around me is to detach. Then I can analyze objectively. This serves me well often enough that I don't bother to develop empathy, and that becomes obvious in situations where empathy is called for.
When someone starts crying, my solution (see that word choice) is to ask about what's causing the problem, instead of giving them comfort. I have difficulty feeling empathy, and I feel helpless when someone's crying (I mean, I gave them a solution, what more can I give them?)

So, I bottle up my Fe, and try to pretend it doesn't exist. That doesn't really work, though. Every six months or so, I'll explode into a good cry, or an angry fit. I also noticed that the music I listen to reflects my mood - I've learned to pay attention to the kind of music I listen to. Sadly enough, it's easier to examine the music than to examine myself.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Hmm, I don't experience Fe anymore. All the time when I was teenager though, which was very stressful. Living a care-free life nowadays, no need for Fe. *yawns*

 

[Matthew_Z]

Assumption: INTPs have feelings.

I am skeptical and disagree with the assumption.

 

[INFtha14]

I walk around town like this all the time. Going to work or class. Sometimes a thought strikes me so much that I stop abruptly, and I'm not entirely sure why I do this, but I usually catch myself and hastily amble on. Maybe it's because I'm used to pacing while I think?

As for emotions, I feel them quite intensely but I find that I need time to integrate them. I also associate emotions very closely to places, especially outdoor spaces where I've spent lots of time doing aforementioned integration, thinking, exploration, and building connections to other people.

Could you tell me abit more about
how you need time to integrate them?
How do you integrate them? if you don't
mind me asking .

Thanks Forgetful Functor .

 

[INFtha14]

My Fe is very underdeveloped. For perspective, I'm only 18 years old, just started college.

My "emotional" reaction to everything around me is to detach. Then I can analyze objectively. This serves me well often enough that I don't bother to develop empathy, and that becomes obvious in situations where empathy is called for.
When someone starts crying, my solution (see that word choice) is to ask about what's causing the problem, instead of giving them comfort. I have difficulty feeling empathy, and I feel helpless when someone's crying (I mean, I gave them a solution, what more can I give them?)

So, I bottle up my Fe, and try to pretend it doesn't exist. That doesn't really work, though. Every six months or so, I'll explode into a good cry, or an angry fit. I also noticed that the music I listen to reflects my mood - I've learned to pay attention to the kind of music I listen to. Sadly enough, it's easier to examine the music than to examine myself.

hmm...interesting.

How do you examine it? like the notes or is there an emotional response when you listen to it while examining it? maybe not your typical emotional response just more that your examining it relation to your mood perhaps?

Thanks.

 

[INFtha14]

Hmm, I don't experience Fe anymore. All the time when I was teenager though, which was very stressful. Living a care-free life nowadays, no need for Fe. *yawns*

Hi Fluffywolf.

hehe .

 

[Totenkindly]

I really am curious about you INTPs
and it seems so hard to seperate them from INFPs .

One thing is that that INFPs tend to have an engaged kindness, while INTPs tend to have a detached kindness. Both can be kind and low-key, it's just that INTPs tend to intellectualize a relationship rather than engaging purely on the emotional level like INFPs can naturally do.

I was talking to a close INFP friend last night and describing a situation where one of my children was in the hospital years ago, and how I just had no real template for what to do. I cared about my child, and I would be there with him in the hospital, but he was very young and thus could not "engage" and I had no idea what to say or how to interact or whatever, and even at times felt bored. It was hard for me to stay there all the time, despite caring as much as I did, my mind was unable to engage anything, and so I was at a loss. I was judged by people in my family for "not caring" about my child, but that is the furthest from the truth.

My friend said when one of his children was in the hospital as a baby, he had no problems: He would sit there for hours, talking to his baby son, and engaging him emotionally even if there was no intellectual/articulated response back. He could do that, and he could totally understand why I couldn't... because I'm not him. What F ability I have came from growing up and living my life surrounded by F-style people and learning how to speak their language just so we could all get along, but it's not that instinctive for me.

Both INTPs and INFPs care, but INTPs tend to need a more intellectual interface by which they try to "articulate" their caring, INFPs will more exude and show it rather than having to explain it and how it works.

Pretty much i want to understand what makes
you guys tick XD. Get inside the INTP head alittle bit.
Hopefully that's not intimidating heh .

I dunno, do you want to go there?

 

[Blank]

That's actually really insightful.

I have a really hard time dealing with the mentally handicapped because of the communication breakdown, not to mention self-reflective fears of being in that kind of state... Physically handicapped people I've got no problems with. It's weird, and it makes me feel like a horrible person.

 

[Grungemouse]

When you do experience your inferior Fe?

It usually comes out it short and intense bursts (ho ho ). Romantic relationships are usually an outlet for this, although as I'm currently with an ISFP this usually results in a like reaction. My Fe usually comes out in the form of comprimising myself for the other person, such as staying up to ungodly hours over Skype whilst she was on holiday (different timezones). I always put their wants before my own, and even go as far as enjoying their pleasures through them. Some people love being loved; I love loving the other person a lot more than what I get out of it.

In one relationship my ex had no money for bus fair, so I gave her mine and took an hour long walk home. [/sentimental drivel]

In social situations I keep my opinions to myself just to prevent "rocking the boat". I don't like to toot my own horn or cause a fuss. Because of this I prefer shopping on my own, as I know that in groups I tend to follow everyone else and hate speaking up in terms of what shops I would like to go in.

When under stress?

When I'm exhausted/PMSing/angry, I'm a lot more paranoid of what others expect of me. Almost every response from the other person - or lack thereof - is taken as a sign of rejection. I've read that INTPs express inferior Fe in "Outward displays of aggression/bawwww!" but this doesn't really apply to me; I withdraw into a sulk and remove myself from the situation. I've also been prone to impulsively severing all ties with an individual, or contemplating it.

How do you know when it's being triggered?

Nope. I don't really think, "Oh, I'm having an inferior Fe moment!" It just happens. I guess the realisation is stumbled upon hindsight, if at all. Negative Fe moments leave as quick as they appear, leaving me with a sore head and feeling humilated with myself. Much like waking up with a hangover and being shown photos of what an idiot you were like the night before.

INFP...Te.. mistaken? (I forgot the exact wording)

I used to wonder whether I'm actually INFP, but now I'm fairly certain that I'm just an inarticulate INTP. My Fi is virtually nonexistant. I remember the week leading up to my exam results. Intellectually, I thought I was fine, but subconsciously was so stressed that I came down with a cold and sported a lovely stye. I'm not sure what inferior Te entails, so yeah.

(I'm 18 btw, so my Fe episodes might not apply)

 

[INFtha14]

One thing is that that INFPs tend to have an engaged kindness, while INTPs tend to have a detached kindness. Both can be kind and low-key, it's just that INTPs tend to intellectualize a relationship rather than engaging purely on the emotional level like INFPs can naturally do.

I was talking to a close INFP friend last night and describing a situation where one of my children was in the hospital years ago, and how I just had no real template for what to do. I cared about my child, and I would be there with him in the hospital, but he was very young and thus could not "engage" and I had no idea what to say or how to interact or whatever, and even at times felt bored. It was hard for me to stay there all the time, despite caring as much as I did, my mind was unable to engage anything, and so I was at a loss. I was judged by people in my family for "not caring" about my child, but that is the furthest from the truth.

My friend said when one of his children was in the hospital as a baby, he had no problems: He would sit there for hours, talking to his baby son, and engaging him emotionally even if there was no intellectual/articulated response back. He could do that, and he could totally understand why I couldn't... because I'm not him. What F ability I have came from growing up and living my life surrounded by F-style people and learning how to speak their language just so we could all get along, but it's not that instinctive for me.

Both INTPs and INFPs care, but INTPs tend to need a more intellectual interface by which they try to "articulate" their caring, INFPs will more exude and show it rather than having to explain it and how it works.



I dunno, do you want to go there?

Thank you Jennifer.
Very nice and clear post. Made it easy for me to see the difference.
I guess that's what they mean when they say they look cold.

hmm...engaged kindness I have that for sure lol. *must be INFP-INTP hybrid XD*

I definitely relate also to the being judged by your family as "not caring".
For example, my mother and I always kinda get at each other's throat and the problem is usually a Fe related problem. I don't communicate in her language so it can be perceived i don't care but i do. I show it by usually trying my best to help out or recognize when she needs help with something.

The Fe communication barrier usually involves me being scolded
" you saw me carring that, why didn't you help me?" " never mind i can do it myself" *does a dramatic motion of doing it herself to make her point etc*
*gotten alot more attentive i gladly can say*

.But the problem with it was to me and can you tell me if you relate to this if possible it seems like manipulation to me and i don't want to do "it" if i'm just being manipulated into doing it. My point is "why can't it be asked for if you don't see me noticing? / instead of scolding me and accusing me of "not caring" lol. If someone doesn't ask for help i assume they don't need it. Guess not .

Does that sound like you at all Jennifer as an INTP or other INTPs? with having trouble reading the signals of Fe? That's a big problem for me and i have that engaged kindness with babies and stuff. Like i love to play with them, talk with them, be silly with them etc.

How do you "intellectualize" the relationship compared to "emotionalizing" one?
. Starting to think i'm a lost INfP perhaps as i'm really trying to be completely honest with myself.

haha I sure do. I find INTPs intriguing and i'm insanely curious about them lol.

 

[INFtha14]

When you do experience your inferior Fe?

It usually comes out it short and intense bursts (ho ho ). Romantic relationships are usually an outlet for this, although as I'm currently with an ISFP this usually results in a like reaction. My Fe usually comes out in the form of comprimising myself for the other person, such as staying up to ungodly hours over Skype whilst she was on holiday (different timezones). I always put their wants before my own, and even go as far as enjoying their pleasures through them. Some people love being loved; I love loving the other person a lot more than what I get out of it.

In one relationship my ex had no money for bus fair, so I gave her mine and took an hour long walk home. [/sentimental drivel]

In social situations I keep my opinions to myself just to prevent "rocking the boat". I don't like to toot my own horn or cause a fuss. Because of this I prefer shopping on my own, as I know that in groups I tend to follow everyone else and hate speaking up in terms of what shops I would like to go in.

When under stress?

When I'm exhausted/PMSing/angry, I'm a lot more paranoid of what others expect of me. Almost every response from the other person - or lack thereof - is taken as a sign of rejection. I've read that INTPs express inferior Fe in "Outward displays of aggression/bawwww!" but this doesn't really apply to me; I withdraw into a sulk and remove myself from the situation. I've also been prone to impulsively severing all ties with an individual, or contemplating it.

How do you know when it's being triggered?

Nope. I don't really think, "Oh, I'm having an inferior Fe moment!" It just happens. I guess the realisation is stumbled upon hindsight, if at all. Negative Fe moments leave as quick as they appear, leaving me with a sore head and feeling humilated with myself. Much like waking up with a hangover and being shown photos of what an idiot you were like the night before.

INFP...Te.. mistaken? (I forgot the exact wording)

I used to wonder whether I'm actually INFP, but now I'm fairly certain that I'm just an inarticulate INTP. My Fi is virtually nonexistant. I remember the week leading up to my exam results. Intellectually, I thought I was fine, but subconsciously was so stressed that I came down with a cold and sported a lovely stye. I'm not sure what inferior Te entails, so yeah.

(I'm 18 btw, so my Fe episodes might not apply)

ooh Thank you GrungeMouse *have you been the mouse that's been outsmarting the traps in my mothers house? XD*

hmm...i relate to that "hate speaking up about wanting to go in some stores so prefer to go alone" I do the same thing, maybe that's a I thing? or INP thing perhaps? being their both BtS interaction style.


you know what? it's interesting you saying about when under stress you impulsively sever all ties or contemplate it. Whenever my mother and i have our little spats i always end up getting so frustrated that i do the same thing.
I'll look at possibilities to move out, when, how, rant alittle hehe. Afterwords i realize how stupid and rash i was being lol.

Yesterday for example she told me "you don't even care" which i was at a total loss cause i thought we were on good terms with her knowing by me helping her out around the house, with my neice etc/"of course i do".
Long story short while at the bus stop i was thinking
"someday if this keeps up i'm never going to talk to her again"
" I never want to talk to her etc".

When i got home after getting my neice off the bus, i felt really hurt by her words of assuming i don't care etc. And i also looked to how my sister who is much better with Fe then i am and felt less than which let to tears cause i felt like something was wrong with me. But then i found that thinker women site that made feel alot better for some reason haha. But that's besides the point sorry got off track.

Thanks again Grunge Mouse .

 

[Totenkindly]

*must be INFP-INTP hybrid XD*

It's just that ultimately you either run off an Fi valueset or a Ti valueset. In terms of "look and feel," a lot about INxPs looks alike, especially if they operate socially in Ne mode.

Because Ti's derive their valueset from the external world, those with similar depth of Ne will tend to have similar valuesets.

However, Fi people have more variety in their valuesets, so you can find quite a range... especially if religious influences were involved.

(Note: Religion can have a profound impact on expression and prioritization of F values even in T people -- religion is a set of imposed values that controls and regulates behavior, which emulates F-style behavior.)

I definitely relate also to the being judged by your family as "not caring". For example, my mother and I always kinda get at each other's throat and the problem is usually a Fe related problem. I don't communicate in her language so it can be perceived i don't care but i do. I show it by usually trying my best to help out or recognize when she needs help with something.

Definitely when you do not conform to your mother's idea of social/relational norms, she will think you do not care. (Fe actually can be flexible -- ESFJs will shift with changing social norms far more readily than ISFJs, because ISFJs run primarily off Si which "anchors" their values against a changing world while ESFJs will more likely accommodate whatever social norms are prevalent.) But Fi's can accuse people of "not caring" as well -- I have a bear of a time with ENFPs who use Fi to steer their Ne intuitions; they can quickly become inflexible and unable to see things in new ways, because they don't want to (their Fi refuses to budge).

But the problem with it was to me and can you tell me if you relate to this if possible it seems like manipulation to me and i don't want to do "it" if i'm just being manipulated into doing it. My point is "why can't it be asked for if you don't see me noticing? / instead of scolding me and accusing me of "not caring" lol. If someone doesn't ask for help i assume they don't need it. Guess not .

I didn't look at your type, but that sounds like a Ji thing... it's part of being introverted. Extroverts live in the external world, that's where everything happens for them; introverts are like little "separate worlds" walking around, and we have to make effort to engage, it's NOT the default. We assume that if people want us, they will ask or engage; and if not, then they won't. The onus is on the person who wants something, far more for introverts than for extroverts.

Does that sound like you at all Jennifer as an INTP? with having trouble reading the signals of Fe? That's a big problem for me and i have that engaged kindness with babies and stuff. Like i love to play with them, talk with them, be silly with them etc.

See, I was far more apt to sit there and smile warmly at them... but not really engage, I just had no idea what to do, and I would smile so that at least people knew I was positively disposed towards them! But it was all "learned" signals, I was teaching myself how to communicate my feelings in ways people could read, not just doing it naturally.

i did far better with my kids after they got older and could intellectually engage and verbally articulate their feelings. I couldn't just relate to them easily as "little people," I do better when I can interact with them as "little minds." This has been changing for me over the years as I gain experience, but has been hard work.

How do you "intellectualize" the relationship compared to "emotionalizing" one?

I don't know, exactly. It's like there is a "translation" going on. I think that Fi's engage directly on an emotional raw level. I feel like I'm constantly "gathering data" rather than understanding the raw cues on their own. Then I process it, decide what it means, decide how I want to respond, then translate it back. It's very much like I'm behind one of those little plexiglass walls where you have to slide something in through the tray where I get it, read it, then send something back; you can see me, we can see each other, we can smile and talk, but there's still this barrier and/or process there through which information flows and has to be translated. My rational process is intuitive for me; my relational process is not.

You probably cannot really recognize this, at this point in my life -- I have had lots of experience as an adult in relationships and use my Ne to empathize and imagine and interpret, so all this happens in a split second... but there is very little in a communication that is unconscious for me, it is ALL calculated and thought through and consciously chosen.

I feel like F people make all these assumptions about the relationship and have to question their impersonal logics, while T people assume the basics of their impersonal logic and question their relational processes. Either they remain impersonal, or they consciously have to "be warm" in order to project warmth.

I'm gone until tomorrow probably, but I will respond to anything else you write even if I can't get to it today.

I have a really hard time dealing with the mentally handicapped because of the communication breakdown, not to mention self-reflective fears of being in that kind of state... Physically handicapped people I've got no problems with. It's weird, and it makes me feel like a horrible person.

yes, that's exactly the same thing! I've had the same issues with mentally handicapped people -- it's not that I want to feel ill-at-ease or am prejudiced or cold, I just don't know... what ... to do.

And then I watch my my FP friends just go right up and engage people like that without thinking twice and all this warmth just pours out of them. I had an ISFP roommate who worked with troubled kids, and she was amazing. She had some REAL issues thinking rationally, honestly, we had a bunch of conflicts ourselves; but in that setting, she could do things I could never do.

I don't get it. I have trouble exuding warmth unless I can articulate it through my ideas.