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  1. #51
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    My mother is a very stereotypical ISFJ with literally no T sense -- she's all feeling and traditional. Her thinking is so bad that the fact that she was an RN for 40 years sometimes scares me, considering she was dealing with dosages for people but had no ability to think outside her programming.

    So in this case, it was frustrating because there was no good way to reach any sort of rational agreement, she just responds out of her values and it was up to me to take it or leave it OR come up with some flex on my part to make it work.

    . outside her programming as in Si Fe or?


    Yeah. I've learned that some things are not worth fighting about and some are -- and it's important to know the difference and then respond correctly.

    right on Jennifer. That's the tricky part hehe.


    That's true. I have had reactions from people that were that way. I realized that some people really suck at thinking about context; I don't know if it is N related, but N's are much better with context. In this context, her words came across as rude, but probably to her, she thought she was just giving you information... and technically she was, the context just added another layer that took her neutral answer and left it seeming sort of rude to you or like an emotional slap.

    Relationships are fun, ain't they? I wish things were less complicated. Especially when two very different people start interacting, it gets sort of hairy sometimes.

    That's what's nice about MBTI and this forum. It helps me to understand where the person is coming, where the communication gap is etc, i love it . I think with MBTI it's not bible but it has helped hugely in my relationship with my mother and where our communication gap is and more.
    I think i've been much more productive too cause of understanding the model in accordance with my mom and i's relationship.

    Especially with trying on the Fe inferior and hearing all the descriptions of how Fe inferior is experienced, especially in a grip. I noticed i related alot to how you Jennifer dealt with your Fe and your particular situation with your mother. And how you got out of it " she is my mother, always done right by me etc".

    I had a similar way of reaching conclusion of rising above it like my mother's innocent in all this, she didn't ask for her husband to die, she didn't ask for her other two daughter to try to manipulate and use her at every chance, she's an innocent bystander in all this as i am. That's when i realized she actually needs me and is not out to get anything from me as my sisters are.

    I guess that's why i've been so eager to figure all this out cause it will actually help me live the best life i can and i recognize the inferior as a key to the mint as Jung pretty much hints at hehe.

    Heavily leaning towards Inferior Fe compared to Te now.


    My Ne is lighter than air.
    hehehe.
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  2. #52
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    I feel I have a little say in this topic as my Ne-ness is really starting to kick in for some reason (I rearranged my room today, something I've never done in my life. What made it even more interesting is that I did it out of nowhere on pure impulse.)

    So, I used to have auxiliary Fe that has died down like a weak storm, and I used to experience it in a very abundant way. Simply walking outside would give me certain "feelings" or "moods" in the present moment. If I looked into someone's eyes, they were like beams of energy that would cast their very mood on me (a good and bad thing). I still get this, and honestly, I've been smothering my Fe with Ti because Fe tends to give me a lot of stress that turns to wasted energy.

    With less Fe, I'm still able to realize what is appropriate in social situations, and I still feel I know what's good for the greater multitude of people on the earth, but I'm not obsessed with... Okay, I'm going to have to stop mid-sentence. I'm not really sure what's different; there's something different, and I can't put my finger on it. I'm definitely more reserved emotionally, and I don't see myself as someone who can sympathize with another's problems, but rather someone who can give a good rational "fix" or encourage them through my view of the world- not exactly using any emotional appeal. A friend of mine kept saying, "I'll try..." and a few months ago, I would have said, "Sure, do that. Always try," but this time I said, "Stop trying and do it. You can do it. Don't underestimate your ability."

    I see it as a completely different way of thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    As a matter of fact, most of the women I've felt enamored with I've perceived as being innocent or pure.
    Ah, I had this when more of a conventional INFJ, and I still have it now, but... man, that burns you. Don't get too obsessed with it. I was really into a girl that I thought was perfect, then I found out she shoplifted and did some... other rather inappropriate things in the past and currently. It killed me. I almost stopped talking to her.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  3. #53
    Senior Member kathara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    hehe.

    Hi Kathara.
    Hello.

  4. #54
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathara View Post
    Hello.


    greetings .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  5. #55
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    Besides often enjoying each other in conversation INFPs and INTPs usually are very different from each other (they aren't in different temperaments for nothing)

    As for how I experience my inferior Fe? It's sorta like when I know the situation requires it, you know when no matter what else you do Ti, Ne, Si you will cause things to go down badly unless you say the right thing

    So what happens? You say the right thing but it comes out really awkwardly and almost to the point of seeming fake (wannabe Fe? or us intps just don't trust it? :P)

    It also comes out in love in our innocent sorta way, I heard a website say that INTPs experience love that is "child like in its purity"

    It's basically as you would expect, something we use that comes out underdeveloped and looks strange to those who use Fe dominantly

    Another example is when you really violate an INTPs principles, when an INTP looses it you WILL know, when an INTP has become so frustrated and nothing can be solved logically, all patterns have gone out the window and the Si cracks about how stupid someone is for "not using the correct wording" are gone all thats left is a really ticked off underdeveloped Fe that wants to destroy everything

    It is inferior though so most of the time I'm not using it
    Last edited by Unique; 10-18-2009 at 01:30 PM.

  6. #56
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    Besides often enjoying each other in conversation INFPs and INTPs usually are very different from each other (they aren't in different temperaments for nothing)

    As for how I experience my inferior Fe? It's sorta like when I know the situation requires it, you know when no matter what else you to Ti, Ne, Si you will cause things to go down badly unless you say the right thing

    So what happens? You say the right thing but it comes out really awkwardly and almost to the point of seeming fake (wannabe Fe? or us intps just don't trust it? :P)

    It also comes out in love in our innocent sorta way, I heard a website say that INTPs experience love that is "child like in its purity"

    It's basically as you would expect, something we use that comes out underdeveloped and looks strange to those who use Fe dominantly

    Another example is when you really violate an INTPs principles, when an INTP looses it you WILL know, when an INTP has become so frustrated and nothing can be solved logically, all patterns have gone out the window and the Si cracks about how stupid someone is for "not using the correct wording" are gone all thats left is a really ticked off underdeveloped Fe that wants to destroy everything

    It is inferior though so most of the time I'm not using it
    right Unique. Defining the difference is for me as i'm still learning is the hard part cause their both Dominant Introverted Judgers with Extraverted Percieiving(Ne).

    This is from a post of mine but from the 4temps by linda v berens.
    " NF = meaning and significance, unique identity, search for who you are etc.

    NT = mastery and self-control. Knowledge and competence."

    This post below is about the Animus, does this sound like how you INTPs experience Fe expression when it's in a negative light especially by the same sex? This is for INTP women to answer as i want to hear it from the female perspective.

    well i was thinking of the animus/anima thing and how it's suppose to be the opposite sex. Like for male it's female and vice versa. it's also behaviors we project onto others as we recognize them as our weak point.

    Long story short, i'm wondering if this can also affect my opinion of other women who seem to use very covert techniques. I seem to find them annoying and manipulative.

    Even if it's be portrayed in a show like say everybody loves raymond, Raymond's mother has always struck a cord with me as a controlling,nosy pain in the booty but did have the right intentions just went about in the most annoying ways.

    I'll find myself saying or thinking XD " instead of sulking and expecting your "sons" to read your mind, why don't you just say something? It just seems inefficient to me to keep people guessing and having to tip toe around your not feeling appreciated.

    Also her character "marie barone" will erk the daylights out of me "" when she pulls the "i'm your mother so i'm entitled to blah blah blah...attitude" card *seriously gets me all flustered* and it seems like pulling rank to manipulate and regain control.

    I end up thinking " why would you do that to your sons and just cause your mother your not entitled to anything special per se. It's more like " you chose to take on the responsibility of having me as your child, so don't you think it's your duty to fulfill it? so why make me feel bad just cause your doing what you as a mother should be doing?

    Making sure her child is safe? It makes me so mad when a mother pulls rank over her child(ren) just to regain control cause of "all she's done for them" seems fake and manipulative/make me sick.

    This seems to bring out a likely Fe inferior/animus. Not just pertaining to what i think is masculine, but what i think a women shouldn't do and that i find really false/trickery *negative Fe*.

    I can appreciate positive Fe but sometimes even that makes me feel stupid or inadequet while being appreciative of this new found insight but i feel "inferior" *word just popped in my head, not influenced from the inferior function name XD.I do feel a step below the person and feel as if i'm not as loved cause i don't possess that finesse or skill of Fe. It really eats at me.*

    So INTP woman, do you tend to get irritated by the same sex portraying the negatives especially of your inferior? I find i do so i'm just trying to see if this is a factor of Fe inferior in the INTP woman.

    And do any of you relate to this?
    Just compared to NF search for meaning and significance which i do , do but i think the pure need to engage my mind was what drawed me to MBTI in the first place, finding myself is a plus i'm thinking. It's not like i had a need to find out who i am i just had a real deep curiousity about personality theory. I go more into it on my blog but that's the gist of it .

    Thanks again all of you .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  7. #57
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    Another example is when you really violate an INTPs principles, when an INTP looses it you WILL know, when an INTP has become so frustrated and nothing can be solved logically, all patterns have gone out the window and the Si cracks about how stupid someone is for "not using the correct wording" are gone all thats left is a really ticked off underdeveloped Fe that wants to destroy everything

    It is inferior though so most of the time I'm not using it
    If it wants to destroy things, that sounds like its shadow, demonic Fi. Berens even renames the "Demon" archetype "Destructive". But again, the line between one and the other is sometimes fuzzy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    Even if it's be portrayed in a show like say everybody loves raymond, Raymond's mother has always struck a cord with me as a controlling,nosy pain in the booty but did have the right intentions just went about in the most annoying ways.

    I'll find myself saying or thinking XD " instead of sulking and expecting your "sons" to read your mind, why don't you just say something? It just seems inefficient to me to keep people guessing and having to tip toe around your not feeling appreciated.

    Also her character "marie barone" will erk the daylights out of me "" when she pulls the "i'm your mother so i'm entitled to blah blah blah...attitude" card *seriously gets me all flustered* and it seems like pulling rank to manipulate and regain control.

    I end up thinking " why would you do that to your sons and just cause your mother your not entitled to anything special per se. It's more like " you chose to take on the responsibility of having me as your child, so don't you think it's your duty to fulfill it? so why make me feel bad just cause your doing what you as a mother should be doing?

    Making sure her child is safe? It makes me so mad when a mother pulls rank over her child(ren) just to regain control cause of "all she's done for them" seems fake and manipulative/make me sick.

    This seems to bring out a likely Fe inferior/animus. Not just pertaining to what i think is masculine, but what i think a women shouldn't do and that i find really false/trickery *negative Fe*.

    I can appreciate positive Fe but sometimes even that makes me feel stupid or inadequet while being appreciative of this new found insight but i feel "inferior" *word just popped in my head, not influenced from the inferior function name XD.I do feel a step below the person and feel as if i'm not as loved cause i don't possess that finesse or skill of Fe. It really eats at me.*
    OK, trying to make sure I understand. You're going by INxP, but "trying on" the T side (INTP) in this instance?
    Fe is anima for INTP, but it is one place down, as Opposing Personality for INFP. Some of your reactions sound like they could be Oppositional. (defending the ego through the opposite attitude to the dominant. Fi "values" would be backed up by Fe in this case, and it seems the character is violating values). As I have been pointing out, anima/animus will be more vulnerable, while OP will be more aggressive. Though you do mention feeling inferior with it, and Berens says that we often project "shoulds" and such with the inferior.

    I just ask, because it can be hard to tell some of these archetypes apart, and you do seem to be sitting between those two types with the X.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  8. #58
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    If it wants to destroy things, that sounds like its shadow, demonic Fi. Berens even renames the "Demon" archetype "Destructive". But again, the line between one and the other is sometimes fuzzy. OK, trying to make sure I understand. You're going by INxP, but "trying on" the T side (INTP) in this instance?
    Fe is anima for INTP, but it is one place down, as Opposing Personality for INFP. Some of your reactions sound like they could be Oppositional. (defending the ego through the opposite attitude to the dominant. Fi "values" would be backed up by Fe in this case, and it seems the character is violating values). As I have been pointing out, anima/animus will be more vulnerable, while OP will be more aggressive. Though you do mention feeling inferior with it, and Berens says that we often project "shoulds" and such with the inferior.

    I just ask, because it can be hard to tell some of these archetypes apart, and you do seem to be sitting between those two types with the X.
    Hi Eric B .
    hmm....oppositional.
    Can you tell me more about oppositional Fe? .
    I put a lower t just cause it does seem to be one of my problems.
    in "was that really me?" Naomi states below.
    Pg. 49-50 Character of the inferior function
    Tunnel Vision: An important characteristic of all inferior functions is tunnel vision. This is what makes whatever is being experienced seem real and believable. We can compare this with how we would react to the same thing when we are not in the grip. We think, “ how could I have believed that?” or “ I must have been blind not to have seen that!”.
    When we focus on a limited piece of reality, what we perceive or conclude may certainly be true, valid, logical, and real. But it’s import and impact are likely to be out of proportion because all the information that lies outside the tunnel is not available to us. This larger body of data or thought usually tempers the perception or judgment made within the tunnel. The issue on which we focus when in the grip may appropriately be seen as trivial or without substance when viewed in a broader context.


    How would Te be inferior. I read it in her book it just doesn't click for me like Fe inferior does hmm...
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  9. #59
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    No idea, Fe is my weakest function.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    β€” C.G. Jung

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  10. #60
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    My Fe seeks out fairness, balance, symmetry. I could care less about people's emotional well being.

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