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  1. #31
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I can relate to this a lot. I'll start looking too far into things and develop a hypersensitivity to certain actions or perceptions of others, and think I was the victim of some type of imperceptible maliciousness. Still have it from time to time, even from people close to me.




    This sounds accurate too.

    I will say though, that I do not know how Fe manifests itself in me positively. I mostly associate its presence as negative, because it usually leads to negative thoughts, negative actions, etc.

    I don't even know how to fix it.
    Damn, yes, this. It sucks. I associate this with Ne malfunctioning though, not Fe. Mostly because it's still entirely rational, if bordering on paranoid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #32
    Member dorcus0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    hmm...interesting.

    How do you examine it? like the notes or is there an emotional response when you listen to it while examining it? maybe not your typical emotional response just more that your examining it relation to your mood perhaps?

    Thanks.

    I look for the mood of the music. You can generally tell if a piece of music is sad or happy. Of course, there are many finer distinctions than just "sad" or "happy". Perhaps I should show instead of tell. I don't really watch music videos, since I prefer to analyze the music of the composer without the bias of the video director.

    For example, I know I'm in trouble when I listen to this for hours on end (it's very good music, except it's depressing and I can't stand to hear it often):
    http://www.youtube.com/v/mWngUlCsM2w

    This is a more contemplative. Somehow, the singer's voice makes this song a bit uplifting:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/c_elY-8pZOA

    This is "my song", if there is such a thing. An epic song about redemption and cheating the devil (which I can somewhat relate to):
    http://www.youtube.com/v/WNfEOwMZMmU
    And lyrics, which really are worth reading:
    KAMELOT - MEMENTO MORI LYRICS

    And for a happy but still contemplative mood, I go for psychedelic trance:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/nIEeCngVr7w

    When I'm brainlessly happy, I listen to brainless house music (the song itself isn't brainless, but the album gets repetitive). I also don't really listen to the lyrics:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/NVob4LtkCB8


    Holy crap, this is the most I've reflected on my emotions in the last few months. If I have the time and if you're still interested, I'll add more examples.
    Last edited by dorcus0; 10-15-2009 at 02:00 PM. Reason: youtube embed formatting

  3. #33
    Member dorcus0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Inferior Fe:
    - Emo explosions if pressured
    - Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
    - Skewed sense of what people expect


    Inferior Te:
    - Obsessive perfectionism with tasks, to get them "just right" and not let people down
    - Drops feelings to go into list/functional mode
    - Can't let things go

    When you enter the inferior unhealthily, you basically have gotten "shoved" there because your primary and secondary are not successfully coping with the situation.

    hence, you tend to lose the strengths of the primary/second, and your weak inferior is all on its own. It's like seeing a two-year-old using that function.

    INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.
    My I and T functions are strong preferences. Maybe that helps me say "no, fuck you" when some people make requests of me. I have had peers take advantage of my willingness to help in group projects during middle school, and since then I've learned to stand my ground. My default now is to say "I'll see what I can do", or "no guarantees".

    I do get emo explosions when I get put under pressure - I try not to bottle my emotions up now. As for "hypersensitivity to others' demands", I generally take things at face value. And I do have a skewed sense of what other people expect - I think they expect what I would expect, which is almost nothing. But then again, other people have a skewed sense of what I expect.

  4. #34
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorcus0 View Post
    I look for the mood of the music. You can generally tell if a piece of music is sad or happy. Of course, there are many finer distinctions than just "sad" or "happy". Perhaps I should show instead of tell. I don't really watch music videos, since I prefer to analyze the music of the composer without the bias of the video director.

    For example, I know I'm in trouble when I listen to this for hours on end (it's very good music, except it's depressing and I can't stand to hear it often):
    http://www.youtube.com/v/mWngUlCsM2w

    This is a more contemplative. Somehow, the singer's voice makes this song a bit uplifting:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/c_elY-8pZOA

    This is "my song", if there is such a thing. An epic song about redemption and cheating the devil (which I can somewhat relate to):
    http://www.youtube.com/v/WNfEOwMZMmU
    And lyrics, which really are worth reading:
    KAMELOT - MEMENTO MORI LYRICS

    And for a happy but still contemplative mood, I go for psychedelic trance:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/nIEeCngVr7w

    When I'm brainlessly happy, I listen to brainless house music (the song itself isn't brainless, but the album gets repetitive). I also don't really listen to the lyrics:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/NVob4LtkCB8


    Holy crap, this is the most I've reflected on my emotions in the last few months. If I have the time and if you're still interested, I'll add more examples.
    hehe. Cool thanks for sharing those videos. *goes to watch videos *

    Got good taste in music D .

    yeah if you would have free time and want to, that would be cool .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  5. #35
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorcus0 View Post
    My I and T functions are strong preferences. Maybe that helps me say "no, fuck you" when some people make requests of me. I have had peers take advantage of my willingness to help in group projects during middle school, and since then I've learned to stand my ground. My default now is to say "I'll see what I can do", or "no guarantees".

    I do get emo explosions when I get put under pressure - I try not to bottle my emotions up now. As for "hypersensitivity to others' demands", I generally take things at face value. And I do have a skewed sense of what other people expect - I think they expect what I would expect, which is almost nothing. But then again, other people have a skewed sense of what I expect.
    interesting you say that about your peers take advantage of your aid.
    I eventually would just turn around and say "page...blankity blank" whatever page the answer was on and make them dig for it .

    hmm...bottled up emotions. I used to do that especially when i was just beginning my greiving. As soon as i would skip past songs or movie's that made me thing of it. Funny thing, anything sad i didn't like even as a kid.

    My sister obviously an F, she would always listen to that real sappy depressing music. I remember being either 6 or 7 years old sitting on her floor and hearing some really sad song that would just brings feelings of sadness.
    Which i immediately thought in my head " why does she listen to this stuff"
    and of course followed by a wanting to get away from it cause it was making me feel all sad.

    I think it took me the longest time to be able to actually sit through the song "every breath you take" without changing the song as soon as i'd here the beginning of it. Cause i didn't like digging into that part of myself.
    But with my father's passing it helped alot to actually be comfortable listening to music that will help me work through my feelings.

    I do have some songs that i specifically go for like for instance
    "the freshmen" by the verve pipes is good for releasing angst.
    *don't laugh XD* and the beginning of buck cherry's "crazy B****"
    I love the yell he does at the beginning sometime's i just get this
    urge to just play that part over and over where he does the
    "oooooooaallllrrriiiiggggggghhhht" *and repeat it till satisfied *

    "I believe in a thing called love" i find i like to listen to when my energy is alittle more pumped and i just need to release it to some fast sped music.
    Or " One more time" by daft punk for the same reason.

    Angst:

    YouTube - The Verve Pipe-The Freshman 3:20 - 4:00 is pure angst and a great release. *fave part*

    YouTube - The Darkness I believe in a thing called love (With Lyrics) the guitar and drums do it for me. perfect for any needed release of angst i always gear towards this song for some reason. 1:56 sweet guitar. 2:38 -3:30 drums-guitar .

    Party/ positive mood.
    YouTube - Daft Punk - One More Time (Original) [High Quality] this is usually for when i'm feeling party girlish/positive lol. *usually when i have plans with friends and looking forward to it*

    this is usually what i listen to when i'm gearing toward angsty/melancholic
    YouTube - Sometime Around Midnight Lyrics Love when the angsty tone picks up. 3:10 and 3:40.

    " my hallelujah song" by julianne hough, is usually another positive vibe one.

    Just thought i'd share too .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  6. #36
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I've recently learned a lot more and gained a better understanding of the anima, thanks to more Beebe articles being made available, as I discuss on "Archetypes of the Functions". Even e-mailed him, and he sent me a copy of another one.

    While the preferred functions are more confident and mature, the anima, like the puer (tertiary) is more vulnerable. Still trying to think how exactly Si is vulnerable for me; though it is definitely childlike. But then, I have come to see that it is not the "function" or "process" that is vulnerable, but rather the complex that fills the archetypal roles. That was very useful in understanding the eight-process model.

    So Fe is definitely a very vulnerable area. Like others have said, very hypersentitive of what others think, easily manipulated and guilt stricken by others saying you don't care; etc. There is also a fear of punishment by others. I believe a lot of INTP's are good at hiding all of this; hence, the stereotype of being always so aloof and detached.

    Also embodied in a sort of femininity, since the anima is supposed to be the opposite gender (makes me wonder how a male animus can be vulnerable for a female). I came to realize that this vulnerable, innocent female ideal image I have is from the anima. I also project it onto women, who appear innocent and like ideal mates. When they lose their "innocence", I get very upset, and it seems strange. This happened earlier this year with a friend's daughter. (Baby is due soon, found out about it in March). My wife was alarmed that I would be so upset about a teenage girl, but it's not that I wanted her myself or anything; it's just an image projected from the anima (plus it triggered memories of a very similar to a girl I liked at that age), and it explains a lot I have gone through with some women I have known over my life (and it is certainly great to have this framework to explain this latest instance).
    This ideal female would likely be an Fe type, who is accepted and liked by the people around her. It's what I always wished I could be, and it always seemed that it was harder to be find that acceptance as a male, because in my environment (the inner city) males had to project this particular tough guy image to be accepted, and even then, male social image is very limited; they have to act a certain way, and it is often females who can be all lively and silly. So I have often been jealous of females in social situations.

    Also, since it's introverts who tend to look more "innocent", ISxJ's do seem to fit the image more then dom. Fe types. And many around me are ISTJ's. ISTJ women do look like Fe users, because of the dom. Si retaining the conventions they have learned, such as the traditional role of women, which are stereotypically Feeling anyway; and probably also the tertiary Fi, which will look up to values.
    Since some had thought I might be dom. Ne, I had to weigh this, and look at a possible Si anima. Before I understood the anima, I could not even tell the difference between what a puer or anima would be like, except for the puer developing earlier and being more distinctly associated with childlike relief. But thankfully, Beebe discusses his Si anima in a couple of his essays, and it does not match mine. His anima is represented as a Chinese laundress he knew, who is orderly and sensory. I would say my ideal female is specifically a nurturer (which ISTJ's are NOT, as will come out in their judgments).
    For me, Si did develop earlier, and is more of a source for "relief", and I can see that it does fit Lenore Thomson's "tertiary temptation", while Fe seems to be associated with Femininity and is developing more now. Hence, a problem of projecting Fe innocence on ISTJ females, only to find they are not so "innocent" at all, but actually rather more closely fit the Opposing Personality (also opposite gender), because of the Te. In fact, I now realize that in the concept I was trying to express here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ttraction.html, the "femininity" factor (in blue) represented the anima, and the "sexiness" factor (in red) is connected with the Opposing Personality; at least in females higher in the light red (the personality bar). They have a sort of power over men, with their wit and attractiveness, and the less light blue, the less "nice" they are about it, and hence, fitting ExTJ.
    Shame my whole discovery process was actually hampered by some "expert" who basically attacked my Fe (using other people's supposed values), and then declared it to be a Senex ("critical parent" shadow) when I reacted. Just think what that does to a vulnerable anima, especially growing up with ISTJ parents for whom Fe was Trickster, and used to try to appeal to external values all the time to push me to grow. People attacking the anima like that creates a strong feeling of emasculation that conveys the sense of a vulnerable female being raped.

    But just like the hero and parent are confident and mature, their shadows, the opposing personality and witch/senex are also confident and very aggressive. Fe is not that for me. Then, the vulnerable child and anima are shadowed by the trickster and demon, which are not really vulnerable themselves, but compensate for the vulnerability by being very reactive. One person I know describes them as a club used to bash the other side. Fi and Se do often fit that for me.

    When INTP's have these strong "Feeling" reactions, using the familiar four process theory, they often attribute it to Fe, but it is possibly really demonic Fi. I have been saying that "function attitude" has been a bit overrated anyway, so the line between Fe as anima and Fi as demon is not as great as some may assume. Feeling is the most rejected function by dominant Thinkers, so the line will be fuzzy switching between external and internal use under stress. Beebe himself even said that the "inferior Feeling" as described by James Hillman (typical negative stuff we often report, such as "anger and desire", etc.) was more likely demonic Fi.
    So attacking the anima will trigger this demonic Fi, which will try to maintain my own rightness and tear down the other person's. I don't think preferred Fi users really do that. If I'm correct, they'll say "well, that's just how you feel", and maintain their integrity in a more confident manner.

    Another good key to have of Beebe's model is that functions 1/4 and 5/8, called the "spine" deal more with the ego's relation to self; while 2/3, 6/7, called the "arms" deal more with our relation to others. So our Fe is really ultimately more about us than others (though of course, it by nature directly references others). Hence, the deep down desire of acceptance by others is to support the ego. For an ExTP, in the Child position, it is more focused on others.
    Last edited by Eric B; 10-17-2009 at 09:12 PM.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  7. #37
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.
    Some of that sounds a bit like descriptions of the INFP with their Fi, feeling pressured to give in, and then feeling bad afterward. Stuff like this made it hard to sort the difference.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  8. #38
    Member dorcus0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duchessoftheshadows
    I do have some songs that i specifically go for like for instance
    "the freshmen" by the verve pipes is good for releasing angst.
    *don't laugh XD* and the beginning of buck cherry's "crazy B****"
    I love the yell he does at the beginning sometime's i just get this
    urge to just play that part over and over where he does the
    "oooooooaallllrrriiiiggggggghhhht" *and repeat it till satisfied *

    "I believe in a thing called love" i find i like to listen to when my energy is alittle more pumped and i just need to release it to some fast sped music.
    Or " One more time" by daft punk for the same reason.

    Angst:

    YouTube - The Verve Pipe-The Freshman 3:20 - 4:00 is pure angst and a great release. *fave part*

    YouTube - The Darkness I believe in a thing called love (With Lyrics) the guitar and drums do it for me. perfect for any needed release of angst i always gear towards this song for some reason. 1:56 sweet guitar. 2:38 -3:30 drums-guitar .

    Party/ positive mood.
    YouTube - Daft Punk - One More Time (Original) [High Quality] this is usually for when i'm feeling party girlish/positive lol. *usually when i have plans with friends and looking forward to it*

    this is usually what i listen to when i'm gearing toward angsty/melancholic
    YouTube - Sometime Around Midnight Lyrics Love when the angsty tone picks up. 3:10 and 3:40.

    " my hallelujah song" by julianne hough, is usually another positive vibe one.

    Just thought i'd share too .
    Thanks for sharing =) Some of the songs I just go or , and some of the others I go.


    A few more examples of songs:

    YouTube - After Forever - Eccentric this is as angsty as is gets for me.

    YouTube - Epica - The Obsessive Devotion is aggressive, melodic, and thought-provoking. 0:00-0:40 and 3:40-4:20 are some of my favorite sections. Too bad this youtube vid cuts the end a few seconds short.

    YouTube - OTEP "Ghost Flowers" is about as purely aggressive as my music ever get.

    It's interesting how much of the music I listen to is aggressive, instead of angsty. I remember an article in Reader's Digest (so take it with a grain of salt) stating that when women get depressed, they get depressed. When men get depressed, they get angry.


    And Eric, I think I'm writing more about Fi than about my Fe. Thinking of how well I know my feeling side, I'm not too surprised.

  9. #39
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    martyrs, martyrs !
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #40
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorcus0 View Post
    Thanks for sharing =) Some of the songs I just go or , and some of the others I go.


    A few more examples of songs:

    YouTube - After Forever - Eccentric this is as angsty as is gets for me.

    YouTube - Epica - The Obsessive Devotion is aggressive, melodic, and thought-provoking. 0:00-0:40 and 3:40-4:20 are some of my favorite sections. Too bad this youtube vid cuts the end a few seconds short.

    YouTube - OTEP "Ghost Flowers" is about as purely aggressive as my music ever get.

    It's interesting how much of the music I listen to is aggressive, instead of angsty. I remember an article in Reader's Digest (so take it with a grain of salt) stating that when women get depressed, they get depressed. When men get depressed, they get angry.


    And Eric, I think I'm writing more about Fi than about my Fe. Thinking of how well I know my feeling side, I'm not too surprised.
    XD hahaha. Cool, i'm glad some made you go too lol.

    oooh wow that last one was a doozy, that's some serious heavy music .
    Middle and first were nice ones too.

    Thanks for adding more vids D.
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

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