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  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Inferior Fe:
    - Emo explosions if pressured
    - Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
    - Skewed sense of what people expect


    Inferior Te:
    - Obsessive perfectionism with tasks, to get them "just right" and not let people down
    - Drops feelings to go into list/functional mode
    - Can't let things go

    When you enter the inferior unhealthily, you basically have gotten "shoved" there because your primary and secondary are not successfully coping with the situation.

    hence, you tend to lose the strengths of the primary/second, and your weak inferior is all on its own. It's like seeing a two-year-old using that function.

    INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.

    Normally flexible INFPs become anal-retentive and finicky. They can work obsessive hours on a task they feel incapable of completing, down to the detail level just like an INTP might obsess over the fine points of a theory. They also can no longer bring their warm Fi skills in to help, so they tend to seem more detached and focused on "get 'er done". I don't quite grasp it, maybe an Fi person can answer this one better.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #22
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    I definitely relate also to the being judged by your family as "not caring".
    For example, my mother and I always kinda get at each other's throat and the problem is usually a Fe related problem. I don't communicate in her language so it can be perceived i don't care but i do. I show it by usually trying my best to help out or recognize when she needs help with something.

    The Fe communication barrier usually involves me being scolded
    " you saw me carring that, why didn't you help me?" " never mind i can do it myself" *does a dramatic motion of doing it herself to make her point etc*
    *gotten alot more attentive i gladly can say*

    .But the problem with it was to me and can you tell me if you relate to this if possible it seems like manipulation to me and i don't want to do "it" if i'm just being manipulated into doing it. My point is "why can't it be asked for if you don't see me noticing? / instead of scolding me and accusing me of "not caring" lol. If someone doesn't ask for help i assume they don't need it. Guess not .
    Oh my Godthat sounds too familiar. I have the same kinds of arguments with my mother. I'm quite sure she's ISFJ, and she doesn't understand that it often doesn't occur to me to help out unless I'm asked to. I tell her I'd be glad to help out if I'm asked, but she keeps insisting I "should do it without asking". I also get irritated because it seems like she's manipulating or testing me.

    With me I'm pretty sure it's a combination of low Fe and Se (I seem to have very low use of both). So often I won't even notice that a chore needs to be done, or that she's actually doing it. I could be sitting at the computer and hearing the dishes bang around in the sink, but it doesn't fully register that she's doing the dishes, let alone that she might like some help. More likely, I'd be absorbed in an online article or game and vaguely aware of the sound of the dishes. I might think something like, "Huh. Clankity clank." and then my attention drifts right back to the contents of my computer screen. Then later she may get irritated with me. "Come on. How could you not notice? Are you deaf?"

    Another source of misunderstanding seems to be how to respond when someone is upset or bothered about something. Like others have described, I'm not sure what to do if there isn't any solution or analysis or facts to be stated. I often hold myself back from a person if I'm worried something else might be needed. I don't really "get" comforting. I mean, I can understand why someone would want it, but I don't get how to do it. My mother seems to want me to say cliched things like "It'll be okay" when she's talking about something she's worried about. I don't want to say something unless I know it to be true. If I don't know how things will turn out, why make a declaration about it? I also hate it when people say those things to me. It seems condescending and fake.

    I have a hard time figuring out how to act in more relaxed social situations as well. I can chat casually with people, but I have a hard time moving it to the next level, knowing when and what to self-disclose, how to respond to their self-disclosures, etc.

    I've questioned myself whether I'm more INFP (if I'm not INTP, that would be my next guess). I've been told I'm an expressive writer (when I decide to be), and I know the stereotypes are "INTPs don't understand their own feelings well" and even "INTPs don't have very strong feelings". I definitely do, so that part of the description doesn't fit. On these boards, people seem to type expressive writers as Fs.

    Apparently it's common for INPs to have a hard time deciding if they are Ts or Fs. If you do a google search for "INTP or INFP" you'll find lots of discussion.

    Oh, and I'd also be interested in hearing about what inferior Te might be like.

  3. #23
    Widdles in your cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Inferior Fe:
    INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved.

    Haha, that explains it for me then. I go out of my way to avoid being cornered in these situations. I think it's only happened once and that was during an argument with my mother. Try escaping the interrogations of an ESTJ when you live under the same roof, and her authority.

    "You're an adult now, act like one."
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    ...Never again will I make the same mistake. O__O;

    Quote Originally Posted by Blankpages
    Apparently it's common for INPs to have a hard time deciding if they are Ts or Fs. If you do a google search for "INTP or INFP" you'll find lots of discussion.
    I've heard about an unwritten rule, where if you've narrowed yourself down to IP/INP and can't decide from there, chances are you're INFP.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's just that ultimately you either run off an Fi valueset or a Ti valueset. In terms of "look and feel," a lot about INxPs looks alike, especially if they operate socially in Ne mode.

    Because Ti's derive their valueset from the external world, those with similar depth of Ne will tend to have similar valuesets.

    However, Fi people have more variety in their valuesets, so you can find quite a range... especially if religious influences were involved.

    (Note: Religion can have a profound impact on expression and prioritization of F values even in T people -- religion is a set of imposed values that controls and regulates behavior, which emulates F-style behavior.)



    Definitely when you do not conform to your mother's idea of social/relational norms, she will think you do not care. (Fe actually can be flexible -- ESFJs will shift with changing social norms far more readily than ISFJs, because ISFJs run primarily off Si which "anchors" their values against a changing world while ESFJs will more likely accommodate whatever social norms are prevalent.) But Fi's can accuse people of "not caring" as well -- I have a bear of a time with ENFPs who use Fi to steer their Ne intuitions; they can quickly become inflexible and unable to see things in new ways, because they don't want to (their Fi refuses to budge).




    I didn't look at your type, but that sounds like a Ji thing... it's part of being introverted. Extroverts live in the external world, that's where everything happens for them; introverts are like little "separate worlds" walking around, and we have to make effort to engage, it's NOT the default. We assume that if people want us, they will ask or engage; and if not, then they won't. The onus is on the person who wants something, far more for introverts than for extroverts.



    See, I was far more apt to sit there and smile warmly at them... but not really engage, I just had no idea what to do, and I would smile so that at least people knew I was positively disposed towards them! But it was all "learned" signals, I was teaching myself how to communicate my feelings in ways people could read, not just doing it naturally.

    i did far better with my kids after they got older and could intellectually engage and verbally articulate their feelings. I couldn't just relate to them easily as "little people," I do better when I can interact with them as "little minds." This has been changing for me over the years as I gain experience, but has been hard work.



    I don't know, exactly. It's like there is a "translation" going on. I think that Fi's engage directly on an emotional raw level. I feel like I'm constantly "gathering data" rather than understanding the raw cues on their own. Then I process it, decide what it means, decide how I want to respond, then translate it back. It's very much like I'm behind one of those little plexiglass walls where you have to slide something in through the tray where I get it, read it, then send something back; you can see me, we can see each other, we can smile and talk, but there's still this barrier and/or process there through which information flows and has to be translated. My rational process is intuitive for me; my relational process is not.

    You probably cannot really recognize this, at this point in my life -- I have had lots of experience as an adult in relationships and use my Ne to empathize and imagine and interpret, so all this happens in a split second... but there is very little in a communication that is unconscious for me, it is ALL calculated and thought through and consciously chosen.

    I feel like F people make all these assumptions about the relationship and have to question their impersonal logics, while T people assume the basics of their impersonal logic and question their relational processes. Either they remain impersonal, or they consciously have to "be warm" in order to project warmth.

    I'm gone until tomorrow probably, but I will respond to anything else you write even if I can't get to it today.



    yes, that's exactly the same thing! I've had the same issues with mentally handicapped people -- it's not that I want to feel ill-at-ease or am prejudiced or cold, I just don't know... what ... to do.

    And then I watch my my FP friends just go right up and engage people like that without thinking twice and all this warmth just pours out of them. I had an ISFP roommate who worked with troubled kids, and she was amazing. She had some REAL issues thinking rationally, honestly, we had a bunch of conflicts ourselves; but in that setting, she could do things I could never do.

    I don't get it. I have trouble exuding warmth unless I can articulate it through my ideas.
    Hi Jennifer thank you
    What did you mean for Ti by:
    "those with similar depth of Ne will tend to have similar valuesets."
    I think it's the similar depth part that i'm curious
    about. Similar depth? .

    oooh that must be my problem then the Ji
    dominant not Fe possibly *as i've just read
    what you wrote about Fe inferior and it
    does seem strikingly like what
    i've been going through and my reactions hmm. *

    But i find I agree with Grunge mouse's reaction in the sense that
    sometimes i'll go over contemplation of severing ties, etc.
    I think i've been in this phase for abit of time possibility.

    When you say F people question their impersonal logics.
    I notice i have worked really hard at developing and
    harnessing my Impersonal logic. I even pride myself on it
    as i have had to really work and practice with it.

    When i'm in a relationship *generally* i will do what you
    said pretty much I'll take in information, look it over,
    figure out what their intentions are, if their be honest
    with me. I also look over a questionable behavior
    *if there is one* and see if it could lead to a
    situation i don't want to be apart of.
    Just like the plexiglass wall you mentioned.

    If i feel i only have a piece of the puzzle i'll wait
    and keep that information in mind and if i see
    anymore questionable behavior or something i
    feel i should be concerned over that's when
    I hand it over to Ji to look it over.
    Assuming this is Ji too. Evaluating information/processing it.

    Like for example a guy i was dating 2-3 yrs ago, I saw
    some signs that this person had some problems with
    control *being controlling* and where it could lead.
    Like if he's doing this and this, it could lead to this.

    " I feel like F people make all these assumptions about
    the relationship and have to question their impersonal
    logics, while T people assume the basics of their
    impersonal logic and question their relational processes."

    I notice I relate to your FP friend when i meet others.
    I could be also logical too actually so that's where the trouble
    starts. Pretty hard but I might see a leaning towards F over T
    just they are neck and neck so it's really hard.
    Fe inferior really seems to be a possibility.

    Thank you Jennifer for taking the time to
    explain INP also as well as INTP/INFP.
    It's very helpful in understanding all
    this type stuff.
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  5. #25
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I always kind of thought that my inferior Fe was acting up (under stress) when I would suddenly become paranoid about what others thought of me. I would somehow randomly get the idea that someone didn't like me, and I'd feel sulky about it until I regained my senses. I would also get paranoid that my friends were ignoring me or willfully being mean to me, and I'd be a little angry about it for a while until realizing that it was just a phantom of my brain.

    Does anyone else experience inferior Fe this way?
    I can relate to this a lot. I'll start looking too far into things and develop a hypersensitivity to certain actions or perceptions of others, and think I was the victim of some type of imperceptible maliciousness. Still have it from time to time, even from people close to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Inferior Fe:
    - Emo explosions if pressured
    - Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
    - Skewed sense of what people expect



    INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.

    This sounds accurate too.

    I will say though, that I do not know how Fe manifests itself in me positively. I mostly associate its presence as negative, because it usually leads to negative thoughts, negative actions, etc.

    I don't even know how to fix it.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Inferior Fe:
    - Emo explosions if pressured
    - Hypersensitivity to the "demands" of others
    - Skewed sense of what people expect


    Inferior Te:
    - Obsessive perfectionism with tasks, to get them "just right" and not let people down
    - Drops feelings to go into list/functional mode
    - Can't let things go

    When you enter the inferior unhealthily, you basically have gotten "shoved" there because your primary and secondary are not successfully coping with the situation.

    hence, you tend to lose the strengths of the primary/second, and your weak inferior is all on its own. It's like seeing a two-year-old using that function.

    INTPs, feeling hypersensitive and like people are demanding things from them, will want to withdraw. The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.

    Normally flexible INFPs become anal-retentive and finicky. They can work obsessive hours on a task they feel incapable of completing, down to the detail level just like an INTP might obsess over the fine points of a theory. They also can no longer bring their warm Fi skills in to help, so they tend to seem more detached and focused on "get 'er done". I don't quite grasp it, maybe an Fi person can answer this one better.
    hmm...I can be pretty perfectionistic and get frustrated with myself.
    Like with math, oh boy if i can't figure out one problem I won't be able to move onto other math problems cause that one is bothering me so much lol.
    *Sounds like Te inferior hmm...*

    But then i can see with my mother relationship with me and how it's been strained that description of Inferior Fe up there explains it all. Definitely recognize a hypersentivity to others demands and a skewed sense of what people expect even. I'll even engage my Ne in it " I bet they want this and this from me or to use me.

    Can the withdrawal happen when that person has manipulated you quite abit and now your just untrusting of them if they ask you to do something?

    i'll speculate sometimes " i bet blank wants to control me and doesn't like that i have my freedom/freewill". I'll even think of the future and when she ages and how it's going to be.

    Like " i know how she is, she's demanding, it's always got to be her way and I surely would not be able to have her life under the same roof with me again."

    " She'd be expecting me to wait on her hand and foot like i did my teen years *Confirming through Si* and be very critical and negative eventually leading me being very drained etc.

    I go on the rants sometimes when i remember a certain memory or she'll do her little "test" with me which i think brings it out *Fe inf. it seems* and it reminds me just how resentful I am of the situation and then it occurs. I'm trying to rise above as to better myself through growth and understanding.

    I guess that's how i see it. this is usually when i'm in a really bad place and resentment is being triggered which i think triggers my Inferior which i'm thinking might be Fe even more so now. Trying so hard to not let it get me, very hard to bite my tongue.

    Well that's how i see it and experience it.

    And woah Blank pages, I definitely relate to your style of dealing with it.
    My mother says the same thing *ISFJ XD*

    " i shouldn't have to ask" or the when there all done with what
    they needed done then they say " you know you could of helped me. I really had a hard time doing it and could of used your help but never mind i'm used to it".

    This will trigger me to say " why didn't you ask then if you were having so much trouble?" then "i shouldn't have to ask" as i mentioned above.
    I say " well how can i know if you need help if you don't tell me? I saw you working on it and you seemed to be having no problems so i let you be. *apparently i suck at people reading in that sense XD*
    her " i'm not having this discussion" .

    Oh and that computer story, been there lol. So into what your doing, your just not paying attention *Se coupled with Fe*. I understand your pain hehe.

    Thanks Blankpages and Jennifer/ everybody else too. I haven't seen the other posters yet. Getting to it .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  7. #27
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The legendary "explosions" don't occur unless they can't get away, but pretty much even someone just ASKING them to do something feels like now they can't say no and that they've been enslaved. The Thinking function no longer can evaluate the data coming in, so Fe is all on its own and is used as a wall or a weapon to fend off seemingly demanding people.
    Yeah like a cornered animal. But I see this as "Shaddow Function Fi" not Fe (which seems pretty happy go lucky doesn't pop in quiet enough as I would like)

    Other person: No man, you can't leave, youre gonna listen to me and do what I say.

    INTP: Get out of my way NOW asshole. You DONT wanna make me angry!

    Other person: (looks at INTP in the eyes and decides its best to give INTP a walkthrough berth)

    (other person moves out of way. INTP calls on the phone an hour later. "Sorry I got a bit upset there. You kinda saw my dark side. I will get that task performed by the end of the week. Cheers!")
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    Under stress I lose all sense of reason and proportion and act stupidly. After, I feel sick to my stomach.

  9. #29
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Under stress I lose all sense of reason and proportion and act stupidly. After, I feel sick to my stomach.
    I feel great when it happens (the break though point not stress in general). Just a bad hangover after. Like Mescal.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    Empathy.

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