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  1. #11
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Assumption: INTPs have feelings.

    I am skeptical and disagree with the assumption.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgetful Functor View Post
    I walk around town like this all the time. Going to work or class. Sometimes a thought strikes me so much that I stop abruptly, and I'm not entirely sure why I do this, but I usually catch myself and hastily amble on. Maybe it's because I'm used to pacing while I think?

    As for emotions, I feel them quite intensely but I find that I need time to integrate them. I also associate emotions very closely to places, especially outdoor spaces where I've spent lots of time doing aforementioned integration, thinking, exploration, and building connections to other people.
    Could you tell me abit more about
    how you need time to integrate them?
    How do you integrate them? if you don't
    mind me asking .

    Thanks Forgetful Functor .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorcus0 View Post
    My Fe is very underdeveloped. For perspective, I'm only 18 years old, just started college.

    My "emotional" reaction to everything around me is to detach. Then I can analyze objectively. This serves me well often enough that I don't bother to develop empathy, and that becomes obvious in situations where empathy is called for.
    When someone starts crying, my solution (see that word choice) is to ask about what's causing the problem, instead of giving them comfort. I have difficulty feeling empathy, and I feel helpless when someone's crying (I mean, I gave them a solution, what more can I give them?)

    So, I bottle up my Fe, and try to pretend it doesn't exist. That doesn't really work, though. Every six months or so, I'll explode into a good cry, or an angry fit. I also noticed that the music I listen to reflects my mood - I've learned to pay attention to the kind of music I listen to. Sadly enough, it's easier to examine the music than to examine myself.
    hmm...interesting.

    How do you examine it? like the notes or is there an emotional response when you listen to it while examining it? maybe not your typical emotional response just more that your examining it relation to your mood perhaps?

    Thanks.
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  4. #14
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Hmm, I don't experience Fe anymore. All the time when I was teenager though, which was very stressful. Living a care-free life nowadays, no need for Fe. *yawns*
    Hi Fluffywolf.

    hehe .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    I really am curious about you INTPs
    and it seems so hard to seperate them from INFPs .
    One thing is that that INFPs tend to have an engaged kindness, while INTPs tend to have a detached kindness. Both can be kind and low-key, it's just that INTPs tend to intellectualize a relationship rather than engaging purely on the emotional level like INFPs can naturally do.

    I was talking to a close INFP friend last night and describing a situation where one of my children was in the hospital years ago, and how I just had no real template for what to do. I cared about my child, and I would be there with him in the hospital, but he was very young and thus could not "engage" and I had no idea what to say or how to interact or whatever, and even at times felt bored. It was hard for me to stay there all the time, despite caring as much as I did, my mind was unable to engage anything, and so I was at a loss. I was judged by people in my family for "not caring" about my child, but that is the furthest from the truth.

    My friend said when one of his children was in the hospital as a baby, he had no problems: He would sit there for hours, talking to his baby son, and engaging him emotionally even if there was no intellectual/articulated response back. He could do that, and he could totally understand why I couldn't... because I'm not him. What F ability I have came from growing up and living my life surrounded by F-style people and learning how to speak their language just so we could all get along, but it's not that instinctive for me.

    Both INTPs and INFPs care, but INTPs tend to need a more intellectual interface by which they try to "articulate" their caring, INFPs will more exude and show it rather than having to explain it and how it works.

    Pretty much i want to understand what makes
    you guys tick XD. Get inside the INTP head alittle bit.
    Hopefully that's not intimidating heh .
    I dunno, do you want to go there?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    . Blank's Avatar
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    That's actually really insightful.

    I have a really hard time dealing with the mentally handicapped because of the communication breakdown, not to mention self-reflective fears of being in that kind of state... Physically handicapped people I've got no problems with. It's weird, and it makes me feel like a horrible person.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  7. #17
    Widdles in your cream.
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    When you do experience your inferior Fe?

    It usually comes out it short and intense bursts (ho ho ). Romantic relationships are usually an outlet for this, although as I'm currently with an ISFP this usually results in a like reaction. My Fe usually comes out in the form of comprimising myself for the other person, such as staying up to ungodly hours over Skype whilst she was on holiday (different timezones). I always put their wants before my own, and even go as far as enjoying their pleasures through them. Some people love being loved; I love loving the other person a lot more than what I get out of it.

    In one relationship my ex had no money for bus fair, so I gave her mine and took an hour long walk home. [/sentimental drivel]

    In social situations I keep my opinions to myself just to prevent "rocking the boat". I don't like to toot my own horn or cause a fuss. Because of this I prefer shopping on my own, as I know that in groups I tend to follow everyone else and hate speaking up in terms of what shops I would like to go in.

    When under stress?

    When I'm exhausted/PMSing/angry, I'm a lot more paranoid of what others expect of me. Almost every response from the other person - or lack thereof - is taken as a sign of rejection. I've read that INTPs express inferior Fe in "Outward displays of aggression/bawwww!" but this doesn't really apply to me; I withdraw into a sulk and remove myself from the situation. I've also been prone to impulsively severing all ties with an individual, or contemplating it.

    How do you know when it's being triggered?

    Nope. I don't really think, "Oh, I'm having an inferior Fe moment!" It just happens. I guess the realisation is stumbled upon hindsight, if at all. Negative Fe moments leave as quick as they appear, leaving me with a sore head and feeling humilated with myself. Much like waking up with a hangover and being shown photos of what an idiot you were like the night before.

    INFP...Te.. mistaken? (I forgot the exact wording)

    I used to wonder whether I'm actually INFP, but now I'm fairly certain that I'm just an inarticulate INTP. My Fi is virtually nonexistant. I remember the week leading up to my exam results. Intellectually, I thought I was fine, but subconsciously was so stressed that I came down with a cold and sported a lovely stye. I'm not sure what inferior Te entails, so yeah.

    (I'm 18 btw, so my Fe episodes might not apply)

  8. #18
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    One thing is that that INFPs tend to have an engaged kindness, while INTPs tend to have a detached kindness. Both can be kind and low-key, it's just that INTPs tend to intellectualize a relationship rather than engaging purely on the emotional level like INFPs can naturally do.

    I was talking to a close INFP friend last night and describing a situation where one of my children was in the hospital years ago, and how I just had no real template for what to do. I cared about my child, and I would be there with him in the hospital, but he was very young and thus could not "engage" and I had no idea what to say or how to interact or whatever, and even at times felt bored. It was hard for me to stay there all the time, despite caring as much as I did, my mind was unable to engage anything, and so I was at a loss. I was judged by people in my family for "not caring" about my child, but that is the furthest from the truth.

    My friend said when one of his children was in the hospital as a baby, he had no problems: He would sit there for hours, talking to his baby son, and engaging him emotionally even if there was no intellectual/articulated response back. He could do that, and he could totally understand why I couldn't... because I'm not him. What F ability I have came from growing up and living my life surrounded by F-style people and learning how to speak their language just so we could all get along, but it's not that instinctive for me.

    Both INTPs and INFPs care, but INTPs tend to need a more intellectual interface by which they try to "articulate" their caring, INFPs will more exude and show it rather than having to explain it and how it works.



    I dunno, do you want to go there?
    Thank you Jennifer.
    Very nice and clear post. Made it easy for me to see the difference.
    I guess that's what they mean when they say they look cold.

    hmm...engaged kindness I have that for sure lol. *must be INFP-INTP hybrid XD*

    I definitely relate also to the being judged by your family as "not caring".
    For example, my mother and I always kinda get at each other's throat and the problem is usually a Fe related problem. I don't communicate in her language so it can be perceived i don't care but i do. I show it by usually trying my best to help out or recognize when she needs help with something.

    The Fe communication barrier usually involves me being scolded
    " you saw me carring that, why didn't you help me?" " never mind i can do it myself" *does a dramatic motion of doing it herself to make her point etc*
    *gotten alot more attentive i gladly can say*

    .But the problem with it was to me and can you tell me if you relate to this if possible it seems like manipulation to me and i don't want to do "it" if i'm just being manipulated into doing it. My point is "why can't it be asked for if you don't see me noticing? / instead of scolding me and accusing me of "not caring" lol. If someone doesn't ask for help i assume they don't need it. Guess not .

    Does that sound like you at all Jennifer as an INTP or other INTPs? with having trouble reading the signals of Fe? That's a big problem for me and i have that engaged kindness with babies and stuff. Like i love to play with them, talk with them, be silly with them etc.

    How do you "intellectualize" the relationship compared to "emotionalizing" one?
    . Starting to think i'm a lost INfP perhaps as i'm really trying to be completely honest with myself.

    haha I sure do. I find INTPs intriguing and i'm insanely curious about them lol.
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  9. #19
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse View Post
    When you do experience your inferior Fe?

    It usually comes out it short and intense bursts (ho ho ). Romantic relationships are usually an outlet for this, although as I'm currently with an ISFP this usually results in a like reaction. My Fe usually comes out in the form of comprimising myself for the other person, such as staying up to ungodly hours over Skype whilst she was on holiday (different timezones). I always put their wants before my own, and even go as far as enjoying their pleasures through them. Some people love being loved; I love loving the other person a lot more than what I get out of it.

    In one relationship my ex had no money for bus fair, so I gave her mine and took an hour long walk home. [/sentimental drivel]

    In social situations I keep my opinions to myself just to prevent "rocking the boat". I don't like to toot my own horn or cause a fuss. Because of this I prefer shopping on my own, as I know that in groups I tend to follow everyone else and hate speaking up in terms of what shops I would like to go in.

    When under stress?

    When I'm exhausted/PMSing/angry, I'm a lot more paranoid of what others expect of me. Almost every response from the other person - or lack thereof - is taken as a sign of rejection. I've read that INTPs express inferior Fe in "Outward displays of aggression/bawwww!" but this doesn't really apply to me; I withdraw into a sulk and remove myself from the situation. I've also been prone to impulsively severing all ties with an individual, or contemplating it.

    How do you know when it's being triggered?

    Nope. I don't really think, "Oh, I'm having an inferior Fe moment!" It just happens. I guess the realisation is stumbled upon hindsight, if at all. Negative Fe moments leave as quick as they appear, leaving me with a sore head and feeling humilated with myself. Much like waking up with a hangover and being shown photos of what an idiot you were like the night before.

    INFP...Te.. mistaken? (I forgot the exact wording)

    I used to wonder whether I'm actually INFP, but now I'm fairly certain that I'm just an inarticulate INTP. My Fi is virtually nonexistant. I remember the week leading up to my exam results. Intellectually, I thought I was fine, but subconsciously was so stressed that I came down with a cold and sported a lovely stye. I'm not sure what inferior Te entails, so yeah.

    (I'm 18 btw, so my Fe episodes might not apply)
    ooh Thank you GrungeMouse *have you been the mouse that's been outsmarting the traps in my mothers house? XD*

    hmm...i relate to that "hate speaking up about wanting to go in some stores so prefer to go alone" I do the same thing, maybe that's a I thing? or INP thing perhaps? being their both BtS interaction style.


    you know what? it's interesting you saying about when under stress you impulsively sever all ties or contemplate it. Whenever my mother and i have our little spats i always end up getting so frustrated that i do the same thing.
    I'll look at possibilities to move out, when, how, rant alittle hehe. Afterwords i realize how stupid and rash i was being lol.

    Yesterday for example she told me "you don't even care" which i was at a total loss cause i thought we were on good terms with her knowing by me helping her out around the house, with my neice etc/"of course i do".
    Long story short while at the bus stop i was thinking
    "someday if this keeps up i'm never going to talk to her again"
    " I never want to talk to her etc".

    When i got home after getting my neice off the bus, i felt really hurt by her words of assuming i don't care etc. And i also looked to how my sister who is much better with Fe then i am and felt less than which let to tears cause i felt like something was wrong with me. But then i found that thinker women site that made feel alot better for some reason haha. But that's besides the point sorry got off track.

    Thanks again Grunge Mouse .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duchessoftheshadows View Post
    *must be INFP-INTP hybrid XD*
    It's just that ultimately you either run off an Fi valueset or a Ti valueset. In terms of "look and feel," a lot about INxPs looks alike, especially if they operate socially in Ne mode.

    Because Ti's derive their valueset from the external world, those with similar depth of Ne will tend to have similar valuesets.

    However, Fi people have more variety in their valuesets, so you can find quite a range... especially if religious influences were involved.

    (Note: Religion can have a profound impact on expression and prioritization of F values even in T people -- religion is a set of imposed values that controls and regulates behavior, which emulates F-style behavior.)

    I definitely relate also to the being judged by your family as "not caring". For example, my mother and I always kinda get at each other's throat and the problem is usually a Fe related problem. I don't communicate in her language so it can be perceived i don't care but i do. I show it by usually trying my best to help out or recognize when she needs help with something.
    Definitely when you do not conform to your mother's idea of social/relational norms, she will think you do not care. (Fe actually can be flexible -- ESFJs will shift with changing social norms far more readily than ISFJs, because ISFJs run primarily off Si which "anchors" their values against a changing world while ESFJs will more likely accommodate whatever social norms are prevalent.) But Fi's can accuse people of "not caring" as well -- I have a bear of a time with ENFPs who use Fi to steer their Ne intuitions; they can quickly become inflexible and unable to see things in new ways, because they don't want to (their Fi refuses to budge).


    But the problem with it was to me and can you tell me if you relate to this if possible it seems like manipulation to me and i don't want to do "it" if i'm just being manipulated into doing it. My point is "why can't it be asked for if you don't see me noticing? / instead of scolding me and accusing me of "not caring" lol. If someone doesn't ask for help i assume they don't need it. Guess not .
    I didn't look at your type, but that sounds like a Ji thing... it's part of being introverted. Extroverts live in the external world, that's where everything happens for them; introverts are like little "separate worlds" walking around, and we have to make effort to engage, it's NOT the default. We assume that if people want us, they will ask or engage; and if not, then they won't. The onus is on the person who wants something, far more for introverts than for extroverts.

    Does that sound like you at all Jennifer as an INTP? with having trouble reading the signals of Fe? That's a big problem for me and i have that engaged kindness with babies and stuff. Like i love to play with them, talk with them, be silly with them etc.
    See, I was far more apt to sit there and smile warmly at them... but not really engage, I just had no idea what to do, and I would smile so that at least people knew I was positively disposed towards them! But it was all "learned" signals, I was teaching myself how to communicate my feelings in ways people could read, not just doing it naturally.

    i did far better with my kids after they got older and could intellectually engage and verbally articulate their feelings. I couldn't just relate to them easily as "little people," I do better when I can interact with them as "little minds." This has been changing for me over the years as I gain experience, but has been hard work.

    How do you "intellectualize" the relationship compared to "emotionalizing" one?
    I don't know, exactly. It's like there is a "translation" going on. I think that Fi's engage directly on an emotional raw level. I feel like I'm constantly "gathering data" rather than understanding the raw cues on their own. Then I process it, decide what it means, decide how I want to respond, then translate it back. It's very much like I'm behind one of those little plexiglass walls where you have to slide something in through the tray where I get it, read it, then send something back; you can see me, we can see each other, we can smile and talk, but there's still this barrier and/or process there through which information flows and has to be translated. My rational process is intuitive for me; my relational process is not.

    You probably cannot really recognize this, at this point in my life -- I have had lots of experience as an adult in relationships and use my Ne to empathize and imagine and interpret, so all this happens in a split second... but there is very little in a communication that is unconscious for me, it is ALL calculated and thought through and consciously chosen.

    I feel like F people make all these assumptions about the relationship and have to question their impersonal logics, while T people assume the basics of their impersonal logic and question their relational processes. Either they remain impersonal, or they consciously have to "be warm" in order to project warmth.

    I'm gone until tomorrow probably, but I will respond to anything else you write even if I can't get to it today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    I have a really hard time dealing with the mentally handicapped because of the communication breakdown, not to mention self-reflective fears of being in that kind of state... Physically handicapped people I've got no problems with. It's weird, and it makes me feel like a horrible person.
    yes, that's exactly the same thing! I've had the same issues with mentally handicapped people -- it's not that I want to feel ill-at-ease or am prejudiced or cold, I just don't know... what ... to do.

    And then I watch my my FP friends just go right up and engage people like that without thinking twice and all this warmth just pours out of them. I had an ISFP roommate who worked with troubled kids, and she was amazing. She had some REAL issues thinking rationally, honestly, we had a bunch of conflicts ourselves; but in that setting, she could do things I could never do.

    I don't get it. I have trouble exuding warmth unless I can articulate it through my ideas.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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