• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] Intellectualization of affect.

braziljoe

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
45
MBTI Type
infp
Enneagram
5w4
...or emotions/affections.
How do other NTs view this? How much is it part of your NT life?
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
For effect?

No, affect, as in affection. He's asking whether you intellectualize your emotions, and what role this intellectualizing of emotion plays in your life.

I'm not an NT, but I'd say my emotions show some signs of being partially intellectualized, and I'd say it has a major impact on how I view reality and life. It makes my perspectives differ from the norm quite often, and means I'm not disgusted by all of the things that disgust others, though I am disgusted by some of them, and by some that wouldn't bother most.

My perception is that NTs usually have F paired with S, so they either have their emotions totally intellectualized (which is rare), or they end up with completely raw, irrational, unintellectualized emotions running amok and impacting them in ways they can't make any sense of (which is more common). They often show their rational face to the world, but are often actually driven to action and choice by emotions that arise from stimuli in a completely irrational, instinctive fashion. This tends to be the nature of the Ego and the Shadow existing together in an individual.
 

MacGuffin

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
10,710
MBTI Type
xkcd
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
No, affect, as in affection. He's asking whether you intellectualize your emotions, and what role this intellectualizing of emotion plays in your life.
Has no affect.
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
No, affect, as in affection. He's asking whether you intellectualize your emotions, and what role this intellectualizing of emotion plays in your life.

I'm not an NT, but I'd say my emotions show some signs of being partially intellectualized, and I'd say it has a major impact on how I view reality and life. It makes my perspectives differ from the norm quite often, and means I'm not disgusted by all of the things that disgust others, though I am disgusted by some of them, and by some that wouldn't bother most.

My perception is that NTs usually have F paired with S, so they either have their emotions totally intellectualized (which is rare), or they end up with completely raw, irrational, unintellectualized emotions running amok and impacting them in ways they can't make any sense of (which is more common). They often show their rational face to the world, but are actually driven by emotions that arise from complete nonsense.

You made me think about something....maybe NTs are more like SFs in how they deal with their emotions and NFs more ST in how they deal with their logic...

Or maybe not.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
You made me think about something....maybe NTs are more like SFs in how they deal with their emotions and NFs more ST in how they deal with their logic...

Or maybe not.

Yeah. I think that is definitely possible. Also, SFs are more NT in processing logic, and STs are more NF at processing emotions.

In other words, I think that your two unconscious functions can end up working together and supporting each other in a similar manner to your conscious functions. The main exception is that the second-weakest function sometimes ends up working with the strongest function, while the weakest one never does.

So ironically, it's more likely that an N-dominant NT would be able to intellectualize their emotions to some degree and gain conscious access to them, while a T-dominant NT can't do so, because the emotions are too far outside conscious control due to the conscious mind being ruled by logic. In other words, in the areas where their F comes into play, the conscious mind doesn't get to make any decisions. They can only maintain conscious control by making decisions logically rather than based on values. It's a strong example of the idea that, "The more you tighten your grip, the more sand slips between your fingers."
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
6,180
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Interesting...
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I thought all NTs generally deal with their emotions as separate objects rather than identifying with them.

You detach from them and analyze them, turning them around in your hands and studying them, so that you can figure out what to do about them.

Other people identify with their emotions and can't separate from them in that way, they self-identity, and to attack or criticize their emotions is to criticize them.
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Yeah. I think that is definitely possible. Also, SFs are more NT in processing logic, and STs are more NF at processing emotions.

In other words, I think that your two unconscious functions can end up working together and supporting each other in a similar manner to your conscious functions. The main exception is that the second-weakest function sometimes ends up working with the strongest function, while the weakest one never does.

So ironically, it's more likely that an N-dominant NT would be able to intellectualize their emotions to some degree and gain conscious access to them, while a T-dominant NT can't do so, because the emotions are too far outside conscious control due to the conscious mind being ruled by logic. In other words, in the areas where their F comes into play, the conscious mind doesn't get to make any decisions. They can only maintain conscious control by making decisions logically rather than based on values. It's a strong example of the idea that, "The more you tighten your grip, the more sand slips between your fingers."

Yeah, ENTPs and INTJs often sound more deep in their emotion analysis I'd say. I think ENTJs and INTPs are more likely to simply acknowledge them as facts and occurrences.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
I thought all NTs generally deal with their emotions as separate objects rather than identifying with them.

You detach from them and analyze them, turning them around in your hands and studying them, so that you can figure out what to do about them.

Exactly.

Deconstructing complex emotional "blurs" into individual slices makes it easier to reorganize the parts into a meaningful logical order.

Doing so helps to better comprehend motivation and reduces difficulty in expressing want.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yeah, ENTPs and INTJs often sound more deep in their emotion analysis I'd say. I think ENTJs and INTPs are more likely to simply acknowledge them as facts and occurrences.

That's interesting. I was going to suggest my experience was different... but I'm actually an N-focused INTP. I think the N opens up exploration without T immediately shutting things out, it allows N to take the point position and just checks everything N sends back to see if it could make sense.

Exactly.
Deconstructing complex emotional "blurs" into individual slices makes it easier to reorganize the parts into a meaningful logical order.
Doing so helps to better comprehend motivation and reduces difficulty in expressing want.

Do NTPs normally have trouble deciding what they want?

J's probably are just fine, they want closure.

Using a Ti process to decide what one wants really sucks, because "wants/desires" are not really in its province; it's especially difficult in regards to making arbitrary decisions (e.g., "What do you want for lunch today?").

Usually in a situation, I've ended up telling myself what I should rationally want (and then going with that), rather than perceiving what I truly wanted regardless.
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
That's interesting. I was going to suggest my experience was different... but I'm actually an N-focused INTP. I think the N opens up exploration without T immediately shutting things out, it allows N to take the point position and just checks everything N sends back to see if it could make sense.

Completely random question but how does your Se rank among the other functions?
 

braziljoe

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
45
MBTI Type
infp
Enneagram
5w4
No, affect, as in affection. He's asking whether you intellectualize your emotions, and what role this intellectualizing of emotion plays in your life.
That's exactly what I meant. But... is "affect" a correct noun?
 

CJ99

Is Willard in Footloose!!
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
582
MBTI Type
ENTP
to the OP:
a lot

I constantly try to intellectually justify my feelings and others. Its quite frustrating because often it really doesn't work and so I confuse myself.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Exactly.

Deconstructing complex emotional "blurs" into individual slices makes it easier to reorganize the parts into a meaningful logical order.

Doing so helps to better comprehend motivation and reduces difficulty in expressing want.

Hmm... now that you mention it, I do see NTs doing this after the fact. But at this point, they've detached from their emotions and are making rational decisions.

I suppose I was talking more about the times when they end up making a value-based decision in the moment, without having the opportunity to detach. NTs are sometimes placed in such situations, and I think their emotional responses at such times tend to have an inferior SF flavor, particularly if they're T dominant (an N dominant can sometimes see the pattern emerging and follow what comes up as a way to keep N in control even as they find themselves in F land, which means their F is as likely to be NF as SF depending on the situation.)

I suppose the question wasn't about intellectualizing emotions while they were being experienced, or experiencing emotions in an intellectual fashion, though.

That's exactly what I meant. But... is "affect" a correct noun?

Yes, but it's a bit old-fashioned. Many people don't know what it means, or how it differs from "effect."
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think their emotional responses at such times tend to have an inferior SF flavor...

Please define what you mean by this, thanks.

Completely random question but how does your Se rank among the other functions?

ROFL.

Lessee, mental checklist here:

Ne / Ti (they flip spots a lot for me, but I'm not an ENTP
Ni
Fe
Si
Fi / Se / Te (depends on situation as to whether it functions well enough ... they all take purposeful effort and massive energy drain)


Yeah, if you were speaking on a hunch... my Se skills have generally sucked, I have to make arduous conscious effort, and I've only recently improved it at all.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Please define what you mean by this, thanks.

I bet you'd feel silly if I refused to define it after you'd already said thank you, wouldn't you? I'm tempted to do that just to mess with you. ;)

But, I won't. I care about completeness too much. :doh:

What I mean is, they usually seem to process and respond to emotions at that point in the same manner that an SF would, only more haltingly and with less skill than a typical SF.

Of course, an INTP with highly developed Si and Fe would likely be able to appear just as skilled as an ISFJ if they so chose. Focused attainment of skills can overrule natural tendencies, and I think that if you don't relate, that's probably the reason. :yes:
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I bet you'd feel silly if I refused to define it after you'd already said thank you, wouldn't you? I'm tempted to do that just to mess with you. ;)

Please don't mess with me. Thank you.

^^^^
Jen messing with Athenian!:newwink:

But, I won't. I care about completeness too much. :doh:

:) I know your secret Achilles Heel!

...ummmm, not so secret anymore, oopsie, my bad. :blush:

What I mean is, they usually seem to process and respond to emotions at that point in the same manner that an SF would, only more haltingly and with less skill than a typical SF.

But what IS that? How does an SF process emotions? You are mixing ISFJ and ISFP here, who run off completely different functions, so I'm honestly not sure what you mean by "typical SF processing."

Did you just mean to insinuate SFJ processing?
 
Top