User Tag List

First 1234513 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 157

  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Could you explain a little more deeply how you got from:

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    It's a question really of which are going to rub *you* the wrong way.
    to

    From this perspective, the best type is all letters reversed (RRRR) or all letters the same (SSSS). The former gives more opportunities to cover each other's weaknesses, and the latter provides the best chance to understand the person's motivations fully.
    ?

    (Personally I agree with the first comment better. The latter comment is a theoretical reality that doesn't seem to play out in real life very often. Basically, people who share all four letters often don't get together (too monotonous / same weaknesses in the relationship), and people who share no letters tend to just create far too much friction and have trouble connecting... unless they are both very stable to begin with and totally willing to deal with this lack of similarity.)

    Usually people seem to do better if at least share either an S or N trait, even if they differ on the other three.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    3,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ListNinja View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I am new to the forum and am trying to find out more information about female NTs and what they need both in terms of initial attraction and for a relationship to work long term.

    I have been discussing with a couple female NT friends and this is what we have come up with so far:

    (1) The man has to be as smart as the female NT and capable of holding his own in intellectual debates
    (2) The man can not be a pushover emotionally - some female NTs have a tendency to exploit weakness in their partners and can become controlling (especially NTJs). Female NTs will not respect a man who will allow them to do this.
    (3) NTs seem to be attracted to men with a high degree of talent, sense of adventure, and/or spontaneity... but we are not sure if these relationships will work long term.

    Thoughts?
    From a man's POV..

    Well, those are good starters for a woman seeking my company. I think it tells of good personal qualities to be looking such attributes in a man; it tells of what the person appreciates for herself, too. Point by point:
    1) Great, that means that the woman can be intellectually stimulation, i.e. interesting. If she expects such things from a man, there's a good chance she'll be capable of handling it.
    2) That's healthy, and reminds of NT like controlling attitudes. NT indeed do think of controllable people as pawns. So yeah why wouldn't it work out as a test to control someone. If the controlling fails, the test is passed
    3) Sounds like the factor openmindedness from FFM, which is a good thing. Hm, with a touch of C- thrown in.

    So, all good. Usually I roll eyes in the sight/sound of any silly "demands" and expectations that women present :rolli: , but these are good ones.

    Demands usually reveal what is lacking from the person making them. Want someone strong? Insecurity & attachment issue. Need someone level-headed? Temper tantrums. Need someone practical? Lazy-ass dreamer.

    Intelligence doesn't seem to be wanted for other reasons than that the person asking it is herself intelligent. Hell, other people wouldn't know how to handle such person anyway

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Demands usually reveal what is lacking from the person making them. Want someone strong? Insecurity & attachment issue. Need someone level-headed? Temper tantrums. Need someone practical? Lazy-ass dreamer.
    Yup, the NT gal is not actually demanding anything to balance out flaws in herself. She expects a mate to simply be on a par with her own sense of (1) independence/autonomy, (2) intelligence/wisdom, and (3) mutual respect.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    3,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yup, the NT gal is not actually demanding anything to balance out flaws in herself. She expects a mate to simply be on a par with her own sense of (1) independence/autonomy, (2) intelligence/wisdom, and (3) mutual respect.
    Yep, have to love them

  5. #25
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    INTX
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    (Personally I agree with the first comment better. The latter comment is a theoretical reality that doesn't seem to play out in real life very often. Basically, people who share all four letters often don't get together (too monotonous / same weaknesses in the relationship), and people who share no letters tend to just create far too much friction and have trouble connecting... unless they are both very stable to begin with and totally willing to deal with this lack of similarity.)

    Usually people seem to do better if at least share either an S or N trait, even if they differ on the other three.
    Well I tend to trust theory more than reality, must be my Ti.

    I don't know tons of people, and can't cite hundreds of examples of duality (complimentariness). But I do know that in my own case, it works pretty well.

    I did choose her deliberately based on perceived duality. At the time I thought I was probably INTJ and she was ESFP... but changed my mind for both of us on closer analysis. I know it's not the most romantic way to choose someone, but to my mind it makes a lot more sense than some other methods.

    Now, if we shared an N or S trait, we might have met easier due to common interests, but we wouldn't be able to fill each other's needs as well. Our S and N would actually be at odds, as her preferred form would be Ni or Si, and mine would be Ne or Se.

    If people share only the first three letters, it can lead to all kinds of friction. (I'm going by Myers' definition of J/P of course, not Socionics where this is altered for introverts -- in which case you actually want only the first three letters different, with the fourth the same.) Perhaps the examples you have in mind were mistyped on the 4th letter for one member. In that case, their preferred traits would correspond to each other's shadow traits.

    I guess the best strategy is to first get the first three letters figured out, then carefully eliminate any candidates that make you uncomfortable, or expect "unreasonable" things of you that you can't fulfill. Any remaining ones pretty much have to be your dual type then.


    Luke

  6. #26
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke View Post
    Well I tend to trust theory more than reality, must be my Ti.
    Well, maybe you could use a little more Ne there to prime the pump, then.

    (Ti without a steady source of relevant data is notorious for wandering off the reservation.)

    I do know that in my own case, it works pretty well.
    Oh, I think it can work. it is just that, generally, looking at many different relationships, usually what I see with complete opposites is unmitigated disaster... especially if both people are young.

    Of course, that also means that if you managed to do so well with it, then that says something positive for the both of you. So, kudos to you.

    (I know I can't make it work myself, so you're better than me there. The times I've tried with an ESFJ were disastrous -- the stereotypical love/hate relationship. It was far too tumultuous. There was no common ground, and far too much misunderstanding.)

    Now, if we shared an N or S trait, we might have met easier due to common interests, but we wouldn't be able to fill each other's needs as well. Our S and N would actually be at odds, as her preferred form would be Ni or Si, and mine would be Ne or Se.
    True... but it still plays differently in reality. I find it much easier to get along with ENFJs, for example -- MUCH easier! -- despite their using Ni and me using Ne. The extro/intro thing actually did not seem to get in the way. So again, theoretically, you might think that the extro/intro difference would cause problems, but in reality, it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as raw theory might suggest.

    I think Berens (?) recommends the sharing of S or N, regardless of intro/extro pref. At least one of the more prominent names does... if I were at home, I'd look it up for you. Not that published authors define MBTI; but they are usually drawing their conclusions both on theory AND real-life experience, which carries more weight than pure theory.


    (... btw, I don't mean to be arguing with you as your first experience here. Welcome to MBTIc and thanks for sharing your thoughts -- I am hoping some others jump in too and comment on this.)

    If people share only the first three letters, it can lead to all kinds of friction. (I'm going by Myers' definition of J/P of course, not Socionics where this is altered for introverts -- in which case you actually want only the first three letters different, with the fourth the same.)
    Uh huh, the Socionics assigns J/P based on your primary, rather than first extroverted, function.

    Perhaps the examples you have in mind were mistyped on the 4th letter for one member. In that case, their preferred traits would correspond to each other's shadow traits.
    Nope. I'm 38 years old... so I am considering years and years of personal experience, along with personality theory. My conclusions is that I think what sounds like a "great idea" in theory actually doesn't pan out for a lot of people.

    (And really, what in a long-term relationship can be so well micromanaged ahead of time? People constantly fall for people who look bad for them on paper.)

    I know I had lots of theories about how relationships were supposed to work before I had them. Unfortunately, it's one thing to have a logical framework in mind and another to actually apply it and understand the practical elements of a relationship.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #27
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    3,823

    Default

    I think I've changed my thinking that INTJ is the way to go.

    I have no one in mind, but after thinking about the general interactions with teh ENFJs that I know, I think I want to go look for one
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #28
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    INTX
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Nope. I'm 38 years old... so I am considering years and years of personal experience, along with personality theory. My conclusions is that I think what sounds like a "great idea" in theory actually doesn't pan out for a lot of people.

    (And really, what in a long-term relationship can be so well micromanaged ahead of time? People constantly fall for people who look bad for them on paper.)

    I know I had lots of theories about how relationships were supposed to work before I had them. Unfortunately, it's one thing to have a logical framework in mind and another to actually apply it and understand the practical elements of a relationship.
    Thanks for the warm welcome... I know it's a sort of awkward topic for a guy to just jump into. I'm sorry to argue, but I'm glad to be able to at least argue with someone who knows what I'm talking about! Usually I have to explain all the Socionics stuff and that distracts from the argument itself.

    I kind of understand what you're saying... but really until I've seen the whole picture and conclusively decided against it, there's no way in heck that I'm going to take such a defeatist attitude towards the theory. It seems more likely to me that you are an ISTP than an INTP if you get along better with ENFJ than ESFJ. (Sorry if this sounds arrogant.)

  9. #29
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,350

    Default

    I agree with Jennifer that absolute opposites do not make the best matches - too much friction.

  10. #30
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    (y)
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTP
    Posts
    371

    Default

    Ive seen all types of relationships work out.

    From identical: ESFP with ESFP

    to polar opposites: ENTJ with ISFP

    to complementary: ENTP with ENFJ

Similar Threads

  1. [NF] What Makes You Deeply HAPPY And/Or What do you NEED to be HAPPY?
    By ChocTiramisu in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 08-19-2017, 11:51 PM
  2. Computers: What do you need them to do that they won't do now?
    By JAVO in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 07-28-2011, 07:37 PM
  3. What do you need to feel "OK"?
    By foolish heart in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 11-25-2009, 12:04 PM
  4. ENFPs and ENTPs: What do you Think of Each Other?
    By Blackwater in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 05-28-2009, 09:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO