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  1. #11
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendacity View Post
    Hello ListNinja

    For me intelligence is an absolute must-have in a guy I'm interested in. If I think he's stupid or ignorant (or even not quite on the same level I am) it's a deal breaker. Because if I'm going to be spending a lot of time with someone they need to interest me, challenge me, and be able to have good conversations and debates.

    Probably second on my list (and it's a close second) is physical attractiveness. I'm sorry, but I notice that kind of thing. Although my idea of attractive isn't always what's conventionally attractive.
    Another big one is that he has to be able to make me laugh. I love guys with kind of a black sense of humor. If he thinks my jokes are tasteless and kind of weird that's a big turn off.

    Not as important is that he be able to take care of himself. By that I mean, hold a job, not have every car he buys repossessed, be able to get up in the morning on time and cook for himself and do his own laundry and stuff like that.



    Often it seems like the type of men who are most drawn to me are the ones who are kind of weak-willed and who want to be controlled by their partner. This is a turn off for me, not only because it's a trait I dislike in both genders and in all people, but because I don't want to be bothered with controlling someone else. I don't worry that I have a tendency to be controlling. If I say "We will do this" and that doesn't work for someone, they need to stand up and say so. I can't be constantly worrying about what someone else is doing and where they are and blah blah blah blah. I've got better things to do and I need more space than that. I need someone who's independent because I am too.
    (!) I would rank that a lot higher than physical looks.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    (!) I would rank that a lot higher than physical looks.
    Yes, that would quickly become frustrating, dealing with anyone who wasn't responsible enough to take care of himself. It's annoying enough to deal with someone who won't practice autonomy, let alone the face that such a person's lack of autonomy would disrupt the autonomy of anyone he dated.

    If you want a child, have a baby...not a bf.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Exploit weakness? Sorry, but that's a weakness in itself. It's strenght that must be destroyed, not weakness. Otherwise it's too easy.

    By the way, all of you except Jennifer sound like demanding bitches.
    I don't see it as demanding; what's the point of investing in a relationship taht will not work (based off our previous data, loads of self-examination and self-exploration)? I think (at least the introverted NTs) have simply deeply examined our relationships and aren't going to repeat the same mistakes. Or, we simply know what we hold as non-negotiables for our values.

    It's sorta doing both parties a favor, turning him down if you know it won't work. For instance, I won't date a guy who isn't reasonably athletic. This is because this is how I enjjoy spending some of my time. And I need him to have similar interests. If I do end up dating him, I'm just going to get frustrated that he never wants to go play beach VB with me/catch, etc.

    We just have put a lot of thought into it, is all.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #14
    Senior Member Recluse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ListNinja View Post
    (1) The man has to be as smart as the female NT and capable of holding his own in intellectual debates
    (2) The man can not be a pushover emotionally - some female NTs have a tendency to exploit weakness in their partners and can become controlling (especially NTJs). Female NTs will not respect a man who will allow them to do this.
    (3) NTs seem to be attracted to men with a high degree of talent, sense of adventure, and/or spontaneity... but we are not sure if these relationships will work long term.
    The sentiments expressed in the above list appear to be more typical of NTJ women than other NT types.

    (1) I want to relax in the comfort of my home, not get into heated debates. I seek intellectual stimulation from reading and other sources, not boyfriends. Do NT women who are not NTJs really do that? To me men serve other, more cuddly purposes (and I am not referring solely to sex here). However, I do bat ideas around with my present boyfriend, who is a fellow INTP. But our infrequent arguments are not over philosophical differences (which we're both accepting of).

    (2) I expect a man to have a backbone, of course, particularly when dealing with other men. But I don't view it as a sign of weakness if he takes a softer stance toward me, making an exception for me or treating me special in some other way, provided he avoids deliberately vague responses meant to protect my feelings. I am a Thinker, after all.

    I have never knowingly exploited--the phrase "toyed with" comes to mind--another's emotional weakness. But I have seen others do so, often with glee and a bizarre sense of pride. I am not able to relate to this.

    Incidentally, certain Feelers bring out my protective instincts (and an occasional bout of the warm fuzzies).

    (3) NTP women are themselves spontaneous, so meeting another free spirit is always a joy. I see no reason why such a relationship couldn't last, at least between Perceiver types. I suppose that an extreme Judger might have difficulty letting go enough to enjoy such a relationship long term--but a fellow Perceiver?

    I've never dated a Judger, because of their need for structure and control, both of which I am resistant to. I can envision a Perceiver-Judger matchup quickly escalating into a battle of wits, with the Perceiver scrutinizing the Judger's rules for loopholes that are big enough to slip through.

    I will speculate that your female NT sources were primarily NTJs.
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  5. #15
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendacity View Post
    Often it seems like the type of men who are most drawn to me are the ones who are kind of weak-willed and who want to be controlled by their partner. This is a turn off for me, not only because it's a trait I dislike in both genders and in all people, but because I don't want to be bothered with controlling someone else. I don't worry that I have a tendency to be controlling. If I say "We will do this" and that doesn't work for someone, they need to stand up and say so. I can't be constantly worrying about what someone else is doing and where they are and blah blah blah blah. I've got better things to do and I need more space than that. I need someone who's independent because I am too.
    What if you wanting to do something does work for someone else or is seen as reasonable enough to allow for it - is that seen as weakness?
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  6. #16
    Senior Member Recluse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Step 1 of how to kill a relationship
    Ah, but only one of the Judger-Perceiver variety, of which I avoid getting into in the first place. A fellow Perceiver would collaborate with me in making enough loopholes in the relationship for both of us to be able to breathe freely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Research shows that in the face of overwhelming amount of information (such as a person), using gut feeling leads to better decisions that conscious thinking.
    There's something deliciously ironic about that sentence.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I didn't say that I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
    Ah, but only one of the Judger-Perceiver variety, of which I avoid getting into in the first place. A fellow Perceiver would collaborate with me in making enough loopholes in the relationship for both of us to be able to breathe freely.
    Mmm hmmm... That is a nice way to say it.

    J/P relationships really do often spin down into that "P needs to find the loopholes that J permits" mentality, to get space and freedom. J has to be flexible enough to allow the loopholes to exist. If not, the P will either become miserable and wither away, or else rebel completely and sunder things.

    P/P relationships have a flexible thing going, where both can come and go, twist and turn as they please.

    J/J's tend to build a relationship with agreed-upon expectations, and as long as both parties agree to the rules and stick to them, everything is fine.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Posts about demanding NT women moved here.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #19
    Junior Member ListNinja's Avatar
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    Thanks to everyone who responded!

    I have compiled the information given here, as well as the info that Jennifer linked about INTP women, and from the thread called "INTJ Female Role Call" started by Usehername. Here are 5 requirements that seem consistent for all NT females, which I think are different from the requirements of females of other temperaments:

    (1) Intelligence: Under no circumstances will a female NT be happy in a long term relationship with someone who is less intelligent than she is. Female NT need someone who can teach them new things, discuss interesting topics, and learn new things with them.
    (2) Independence: A female NT needs a partner who is emotionally independent. A female NT can not be with a partner who is needy, frequently depressed, or otherwise not in control of his emotions. He also must be confident and not feel threatened by the female NT’s intelligence.
    (3) Responsibility: This is true of other types of women as well, but female NTs are turned off by someone who can not take care of himself, pay his bills on time, be on time for work, etc. For a female NT this relates back to being independent.
    (4) Understanding: Many men do not understand female NTs and will attempt to woo them with traditional gifts and gestures like flowers, candy, a romantic date, or a love letter. Many female NTs get slightly nauseated at the thought of these cliché gifts, and want their partner to understand this preference without judgment. (NT females are more likely to respond to something personal or educational, like a book, tickets to an interesting event, or a trip.)
    (5) Similar Interests: Female NTs are looking for a partner in crime, not an emotional support system or (necessarily) a stable family structure. Therefore they look for a mate who is interested in doing the things they want to do, like participate in sports or other hobbies, go on trips, learn about a certain topic, etc.

    Refinement always welcomed.

    I didn't exactly answer all of my own questions but I think I'm getting closer to understanding commonalities between NT females.

    Also.. Recluse asked if my original sample of friends was all NTJs.. it was not, it was just very small, 2 NTJs and 2 NTPs.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Mmm hmmm... That is a nice way to say it.

    J/P relationships really do often spin down into that "P needs to find the loopholes that J permits" mentality, to get space and freedom. J has to be flexible enough to allow the loopholes to exist. If not, the P will either become miserable and wither away, or else rebel completely and sunder things.

    P/P relationships have a flexible thing going, where both can come and go, twist and turn as they please.

    J/J's tend to build a relationship with agreed-upon expectations, and as long as both parties agree to the rules and stick to them, everything is fine.
    I am in a relationship with an ESFJ woman. As an INTP, I am her complementary type. If she was ENTJ, that would make her less compatible because her preferred forms of N and T would be opposite mine. (Te and Ni instead of Ti and Ne.)

    Actual character qualities are different from type-based compatibility. In an absolute scale, there are advantages and disadvantages to both J and P, F and T, E and I, S and N. It's a question really of which are going to rub *you* the wrong way. From this perspective, the best type is all letters reversed (RRRR) or all letters the same (SSSS). The former gives more opportunities to cover each other's weaknesses, and the latter provides the best chance to understand the person's motivations fully.

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