[ENTJ] why the ENTJ hate?!

[Vie]

Ironic. Good for you.

 

[yenom]

This whole thread is about ENTJs using self-victimization to gain sympathy from other people. Am I right or not?

 

[Aleksei]

Man there really is a lot of ENTJ hate floating around. Everyone thinks Hitler's ENTJ just because he's teh evulz.

 

[LunarMoon]

The problem with ENTJs is that our average type description…is horrible. They drag out people’s memories of the controlling, TPS-report-obsessed manager that everyone has. The general reputation of the type as a leader also tends not to go over well. If ENTJs are leaders than surely by their logic other types must be followers, and no one wants to believe that they are followers. The vast majority of individuals prefer to delusionally believe that they are special, uncontrollable snowflakes who are constantly on an independent quest so the very idea that an ENTJ would ever wants to “lead” them tends to set off all sorts of alarms.

And of course, as most people aren’t overly grounded in basic statistics, it’s not uncommon for people on this forum to see “ENTJs” everywhere, despite our extreme rarity. Most of these non-tested “ENTJs” are of course far more likely to be ESTJs, ESFJs, or even ESTPs. It sort of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when people type every controlling individual as an ENTJ.

Going back to those magnificent profiles, comments such as "I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?" casts us as NTs who are ironically enough, incredibly lacking in curiosity. Hence why ENTJs have acquired the reputation of being the perennial dunces of the Rational temperament.

On a purely personal basis, such a dislike for ENTJs on this site has kept me away from it rather well. It simply isn’t worth socializing with individuals who by practice dislike me when I could be using my time more valuably by doing anything else: improving my small business, learning a language, discovering the cure for cancer. Anything. And the common practice of hiding one’s type in order to be more well liked always struck me as extremely cowardly.

 

[Aleksei]

Just to nitpick one particular point...

And of course, as most people aren’t overly grounded in basic statistics, it’s not uncommon for people on this forum to see “ENTJs” everywhere, despite our extreme rarity. Most of these non-tested “ENTJs” are of course far more likely to be ESTJs, ESFJs, or even ESTPs.

ENTJs are actually quite rare on forums, but genuinely more common than they are among the general population, simply because the internet is N-dominated. Most ENTJs here don't seem mistyped to me, and the ones that are I'd say aren't any of the types you just described (I'd argue they're both either ENFP or ESFP -- likely the latter).

Going back to those magnificent profiles, comments such as "I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?" casts us as NTs who are ironically enough, incredibly lacking in curiosity.

Aside from the fact those descriptions are rooted in Keirsey (which is a different system that happens to use the same letter code), being a Rational doesn't necessarily make one inquisitive -- it is Engineers (NTPs) who are described as naturally curious. ENTJs fall under the Coordinator sub-temperament, and are thus described as visionary enterprisers -- which they are. Not investigators.

 

[MacGuffin]

On a purely personal basis, such a dislike for ENTJs on this site has kept me away from it rather well. It simply isn’t worth socializing with individuals who by practice dislike me when I could be using my time more valuably by doing anything else: improving my small business, learning a language, discovering the cure for cancer. Anything.

Yes, yes, we're all losers for wasting our time on here instead of doing something better with our lives.

Why do people hate ENTJs again?

 

[Moiety]

Man there really is a lot of ENTJ hate floating around. Everyone thinks Hitler's ENTJ just because he's teh evulz.

I think Hilter is ENFJ just because he's teh evulz.

 

[Aleksei]

He's INFJ though.

 

[Moiety]

He's INFJ though.

You're a loon though.

 

[Aleksei]

Yeah, it says so right on my profile.

 

[LunarMoon]

Just to nitpick one particular point...


ENTJs are actually quite rare on forums, but genuinely more common than they are among the general population, simply because the internet is N-dominated. Most ENTJs here don't seem mistyped to me, and the ones that are I'd say aren't any of the types you just described (I'd argue they're both either ENFP or ESFP -- likely the latter).

I was actually referring to the extreme abundance of supposed ENTJs that people on this particular forum identify as existing within their off-line, personal lives. The fact that someone's father is controlling, for example, isn't part of him being an ENTJ, it's part of being a teenager. But I agree: ESTJs, ESFJs, and ESTPs are quite rare on MBTI forums but are extremely common in the "real world". Thus when people claim to know four ENTJs when I'm not even aware of two that I've tested, it leads me to believe that they're actually attaching the ENTJ lable onto representatives of the previously mentioned types, who are far more common outside of the internet.

Aside from the fact those descriptions are rooted in Keirsey (which is a different system that happens to use the same letter code), being a Rational doesn't necessarily make one inquisitive -- it is Engineers (NTPs) who are described as naturally curious. ENTJs fall under the Coordinator sub-temperament, and are thus described as visionary enterprisers -- which they are. Not investigators.

People tend to score similarly enough between the two systems that both of them are almost interchangeble. Which is to say that there are far more people who consistently seem to score as an INTP on both the Keirsey Temperament Sorter and the MBTI than can be said for say, Socionics, on which an individual who is INTP in MBTI will often score as an INTJ. Other than that Keirsey Rationals as a group are almost always described as "knowledge seekers". According to Please Understand Me II they are naturally drawn to scientific and technological pursuits. ENTPs only differ in how they use the knowledge that they gain: INTJs and ENTJs are, for instance, far more practical in the application of what they know than ENTPs and INTPs.

Yes, yes, we're all losers for wasting our time on here instead of doing something better with our lives.

Why do people hate ENTJs again?

You misunderstand me. As there is most likely no real, objective purpose to life overall nothing that anyone does can be said to be an objectively better or worse use of time than anything else. However, any benefit that can be gained from Typology Central tends to be based upon enjoyment and it's difficult to obtain any enjoyment when one is automatically disliked for his or her type. Frequenting Typology Central is most likely a poor use of my time. The same can't be said for someone with different objectives in life or for types that are better liked on this particular forum.

 

[FDG]

I was actually referring to the extreme abundance of supposed ENTJs that people on this particular forum identify as existing within their off-line, personal lives. The fact that someone's father is controlling, for example, isn't part of him being an ENTJ, it's part of being a teenager. But I agree: ESTJs, ESFJs, and ESTPs are quite rare on MBTI forums but are extremely common in the "real world". Thus when people claim to know four ENTJs when I'm not even aware of two that I've tested, it leads me to believe that they're actually attaching the ENTJ lable onto representatives of the previously mentioned types, who are far more common outside of the internet.

I know...9 ENTJs. Usually, it's (we are) a "clustered" type.

 

[yenom]

I think any type that calls himself an 8w7 and demands to be treated like a GOD is asking to be raped.

But then again most ENTJs fall into this category.

 

[yenom]

A picture speaks a thousand words. Replace capitalism with ENTJ.

 

[angell_m]

If Dr. House is an ENTJ, ENTJ's are awesome.

 

[Aleksei]

People tend to score similarly enough between the two systems that both of them are almost interchangeble. Which is to say that there are far more people who consistently seem to score as an INTP on both the Keirsey Temperament Sorter and the MBTI than can be said for say, Socionics, on which an individual who is INTP in MBTI will often score as an INTJ.

There's still like a 25% error margin, at least, though. The two systems are only superficially similar; Keirsey basically describes how people of a given MBTI type are expected to act outwardly. People I know whose Keirsey and MBTI types don't match include my INTJ friend (Healer), his ENTP girlfriend (Promoter), and my other ESTP friend (Field Marshal). Myself I'm likely a Field Marshal, but I could be an Architect or Inventor.

If Dr. House is an ENTJ, ENTJ's are awesome.

Dr House is some sort of NTP.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

House has a rather balanced J/P dynamic. He usually knows when to come up with ideas and how to get solutions and then implement them. His preference is P though.

He is also fictional so as such he is inevitably doomed to the "He is everything!" dynamic.

 

[LunarMoon]

I know...9 ENTJs. Usually, it's (we are) a "clustered" type.

That’s very interesting. Do you work in a technological field or among those in a position of management? CEO’s for instance, are vastly overrepresented by xxTJs: ESTJs, ISTJs, ENTJs, and INTJs, in that order by raw numbers but in the general population the last of these four types are quite rare. I can’t imagine an ISFP running into too many ENTJs amidst their daily routine, as people will often claim on Typology Central. As you say, the personalities tend to cluster together into different interest fields. To elaborate on the test results, I obtained, they were taken amongst some forty high school students and teachers. Me and two INTPs, one of them a psychology teacher, were the only Rationals amongst those forty and most of the individuals that I suspected of being ENTJs actually turned out to be ESTPs. Once people reach adulthood people have a tendency to separate based upon their personalities and interests so it would seem that a high school sampling of individuals over the age of sixteen would be one of the better representations of the general population.

There's still like a 25% error margin, at least, though. The two systems are only superficially similar; Keirsey basically describes how people of a given MBTI type are expected to act outwardly. People I know whose Keirsey and MBTI types don't match include my INTJ friend (Healer), his ENTP girlfriend (Promoter), and my other ESTP friend (Field Marshal). Myself I'm likely a Field Marshal, but I could be an Architect or Inventor.

MBTI in itself has a high rate of error as well, which is to say that individuals who take the exact same test a second time will often retrieve different results. It’s difficult to say whether these same individuals would have achieved different results even if both of the tests that they had taken were versions of the MBTI. This is especially true since the sample size appears to be relatively small, if your not basing the percentage upon individuals that you don’t personally know as well. At 3 people equaling to 25% of the sample, that only makes an overall sample size of 12, which doesn’t seem stringent enough to make a hard and fast observation about the test’s compatibility with the MBTI. I simply don’t see as many compatibility problems between the two different systems discussed often enough to justify a 25% margin of error.

 

[Evguenia]

That’s very interesting. Do you work in a technological field or among those in a position of management? CEO’s for instance, are vastly overrepresented by xxTJs: ESTJs, ISTJs, ENTJs, and INTJs, in that order by raw numbers but in the general population the last of these four types are quite rare. I can’t imagine an ISFP running into too many ENTJs amidst their daily routine, as people will often claim on Typology Central. As you say, the personalities tend to cluster together into different interest fields. To elaborate on the test results, I obtained, they were taken amongst some forty high school students and teachers. Me and two INTPs, one of them a psychology teacher, were the only Rationals amongst those forty and most of the individuals that I suspected of being ENTJs actually turned out to be ESTPs. Once people reach adulthood people have a tendency to separate based upon their personalities and interests so it would seem that a high school sampling of individuals over the age of sixteen would be one of the better representations of the general population.

I've met many introverts of all shapes and sizes through different interest groups and just through school in general. Since I tend to take a more dominant role, the more passive introverts tend to feel more comfortable having someone by their side who can lead them. I don't feel all that comfortable around INTJ's, though, and not around feeling-type introverts.

While I don't frequent this forum much and am unfamiliar with the age contingents here, I do believe that you can get quite a variety of types depending on where you work. My mother works for the government and says that there are both the "very quiet and untalkative people" as well as the "chatty and outgoing people" at her workplace.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I think this is the only forum I have been where the ENTJ labelled tend to act as ENTPs do on others. Perhaps that is the cause of the confusion and the angst?