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[NT] ENTPs sound intelligent, INTPs sound boring...

Elfboy

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to me
- ENTPs sound: like an intelligent person, but not as intelligent as they think they are (like maybe their IQ is 120 and they think it's 145)
- INTPs sound: extremely intelligent, but confused, out of touch with the world, lacking priorities and just not knowing what the hell to do
 

entropie

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Being wise is more important to me than being intelligent. I am quite sure my IQ barely hits 120 :). But I know too that I have a lot more life experience than most of my age group, cause I do think a lot more about stuff. This wasnt planned or intended from the start, it just happened and now around age 30 I have made it a goal of my life.

I am not surprised to find a lot of intps who'ld think the same way cause thats how I got intps to know. Intelligence can buy you a house, but its wisdom that saves your life.
 

EcK

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to me
- ENTPs sound: like an intelligent person, but not as intelligent as they think they are (like maybe their IQ is 120 and they think it's 145)
- INTPs sound: extremely intelligent, but confused, out of touch with the world, lacking priorities and just not knowing what the hell to do
Well IQ is easily testable. (with a real psychologist)
An issue with intelligent people is that by definition is you are highly intelligent it means you are statistically unrepresentative and therefor your center of interest and communication style will tend not to be naturally geared toward the general population.
There s nothing wrong with the general population by the way but if you keep using words like sempiternal, obtuse, chimerical, discrete, subjugated, abscond, vivacious etc at age 14 you re not exactly going to be hitting all the ''you re part of our group'' triggers in your average peer bonding clique.
I guess entps would have an easier time communicating through a better working theory of mind (our ability to project and understand other ppl's mindset and motivations) than their introvert counterpart. Even assume equal ability someone who expose hirself to hir social environment more often and engage more will basically be better ''trained'' at communicating effectively.

Then again to get to the IQ bit I'd assume some of the higher iq entps kids turn intp as they grow. There's this study showing entps shifting from highest iq as young children ( i dont recall how old, but say up to early puberty to 2nd or 3rd as they go through the years of compulsory schooling.
Then again it could just be that children would be more likely to type E and P due to lower inhibitions and the general high energy lots of kids display.
 

Elfboy

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Well IQ is easily testable. (with a real psychologist)
An issue with intelligent people is that by definition is you are highly intelligent it means you are statistically unrepresentative and therefor your center of interest and communication style will tend not to be naturally geared toward the general population.
There s nothing wrong with the general population by the way but if you keep using words like sempiternal, obtuse, chimerical, discrete, subjugated, abscond, vivacious etc at age 14 you re not exactly going to be hitting all the ''you re part of our group'' triggers in your average group.
I guess entps have an easier time communicating through a better working theory of mind (our ability to project and understand other ppl's mindset and motivations) that their introvert counterpart.
Then again to go to the IQ bit I'd assume some of the higher iq entps kids turn intp as they grow. There's this study showing entps shifting from highest iq as children young children to 2nd or 3rd as they go through the years of compulsory schooling.
Then again it could just be that children would be more likely to type E and P due to lower inhibitions and the general high energy lots of kids display.

makes sense to me (I can relate to most of this as a fellow Ne dom)
 

1487610420

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Intelligence never bores me, but there are times when it's truly foreign. I'm simultaneously humbled and then impaired, just listening to them. Then I get angry. "ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER! Do you speak it?!"

I srsly snorted my imaginary drink out of my nose. :laugh:
 

RicPTmc

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The most boring thing that a ENTP can do to a INTP is to explain things in a global encompassing perspective imagining apparently all the possibilities and thinking that it look like a great mental achievement... that are in fact all simple basic and obvious basic things to the INTP to understand, but the he listens patiently in hope that some day the ENTP makes a point about what the F"#$ he is saying.

The ENTP doesn't understand shit of the dense and elaborate specific knowledge and information the INTP's expounds in a logical insensitive way, and calls him boring because of it.
 

entropie

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The most boring thing that a ENTP can do to a INTP is to explain things in a global encompassing perspective imagining apparently all the possibilities and thinking that it look like a great mental achievement... that are in fact all simple basic and obvious basic things to the INTP to understand, but the he listens patiently in hope that some day the ENTP makes a point about what the F"#$ he is saying.

The ENTP doesn't understand shit of the dense and elaborate specific knowledge and information the INTP's expounds in a logical insensitive way, and calls him boring because of it.

Unfortunately, when you want to succeed in life, you'll need to develop patience with your much lesser intelligent peers. or one day they'll come and run a pale up your ass and leave you in the sun drieing like Vlad the impaler. :)
 
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What kind of definition of IQ/intelligence do we have if those who supposedly possess it cannot effectively communicate?

Although, I agree with the introverts, extroverts do tend to, ironically enough, do a poor job at reflecting reality and it always comes back to them... but I have to ask, if all you really think only truth is important, and assuming ENTPs getting attention doesn't impede your effort to do so, why would it bother you?
 

entropie

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What kind of definition of IQ/intelligence do we have if those who supposedly possess it cannot effectively communicate?

Although, I agree with the introverts, extroverts do tend to, ironically enough, do a poor job at reflecting reality and it always comes back to them... but I have to ask, if all you really think only truth is important, and assuming ENTPs getting attention doesn't impede your effort to do so, why would it bother you?

The statement "Introverts do reflect reality better" is epic :)
 
S

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interesting, i have a theory that this stems not from how intelligent someone is but from how intelligent they are relatively to the environment they grow up in within their social development and identity-defining periods (teenhood):

- at the 'lowest level' we hve those who are insecure about their intelligence, many will seek other points of esteem and define their intelligent as average. in fact so many that the mathemtical definition of average is getting screwed over:
[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDOHPssLrQ"]like this but with I-penis[/YOUTUBE]

- then you have people intelligent enough relatively to their envrionment to gain a competitve edge from it, and yet feel jelous of those they feel are more intelligent then themselves, because they will develop a view of intelligent as a competition, but can mature to view other's intelligence as a cooperative oppertunity. they are the most likely to view intelligence in terms of cultural memes, adopting it's apearance rather then try to challange themselves in mental processing.

- people intelligent enough relatively to their own enivornment to have a lot of thoughts that many others around them can't seem to relate too - they will often feel lonely, isolated, and forn an elitistic view of their own intelligence.

- people intelligent enough relatively to their own environment to not only think thoughts others have a hard time relating too but actually figure out ways to express those thoughts in a way that others will find a way to relate too, and have learned the humility that others - no matter how seemingly intelligent or unintelligent they may be - can have something insightful to say, can inspire them or give them the mental connection they have being missing.

- the people who gave those in the 'level below' that humility... for some reason 80% of them work in the bars, waitressing or other service jobs:
Garbageman.jpg
 

Cellmold

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There s nothing wrong with the general population by the way but if you keep using words like sempiternal, obtuse, chimerical, discrete, subjugated, abscond, vivacious etc at age 14 you re not exactly going to be hitting all the ''you re part of our group'' triggers in your average peer bonding clique.

That's very true.

There is a fine line between being an intellectual dilettante and being an intellectual blowhard.

By actually contructing this sentence I have accidentally put myself into the latter catagory... but who cares? It was worth the risk.

- people intelligent enough relatively to their own enivornment to have a lot of thoughts that many others around them can't seem to relate too - they will often feel lonely, isolated, and forn an elitistic view of their own intelligence.

- people intelligent enough relatively to their own environment to not only think thoughts others have a hard time relating too but actually figure out ways to express those thoughts in a way that others will find a way to relate too, and have learned the humility that others - no matter how seemingly intelligent or unintelligent they may be - can have something insightful to say, can inspire them or give them the mental connection they have being missing.

Im actually at the point where im nearly past the first stage above and im moving into the second one.....or at least I believe I am which could mean that I am not.

But I definitely relate to this sentence:
and have learned the humility that others - no matter how seemingly intelligent or unintelligent they may be - can have something insightful to say, can inspire them or give them the mental connection they have being missing.

That's extremely important in life, or at least it is to me and im glad you mentioned it. Ive never understood the hatred some have for 'menial tasks' as some jobs are viewed, alongside the judgements made against those who do them based upon a pre-concieved notion of what constitutes intelligence. But I find those who do this are usually those whose powers of perception go about as deep as a toddlers paddling pool, they see intelligence as being something tangible and tied to success, whereas my view is that nothing could be further from the truth.

Having worked in a variety of said jobs I long ago learned about the ridiculous variations within humanity, not to mention the value and difficulty of such jobs.

Of course it helped that I was raised in an environment that encouraged this way of thinking in any case.
 

entropie

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What I find mysterious is why people with good communication skills are usually regarded as less intelligent. The problem with speaking openly is that the words in your head always sound better than the words that you say. And then its the audience itself that starts to give the conversation a certain dynamic, trend or note which it will then start to shift to. That most often results in a lack of quality. It's easier sitting in the back and saying nothing, proclaiming one is the most intelligent person than just speaking to one person.

I am working in politics. I have a pretty huge experience already with speaking to a very wide variety of people, coming from the most different ressorts. It is simple hell and an impossible job at times. You cant just stubbornly follow your plan and ignore everyone, but you cant listen to everyone as well, because that will ruin all of the quality your plan ever had. Coming to terms with people, debating or getting your goals thrugh is a deep pain in the ass, even Vlad the impaler couldnt produce.

To me, a person who thinks someone, because he is talkative, has therefore logically reduced quality or intelligence in his content, has never tried speaking openly themselves or never must. one board of trustees session and you think completly differently about that. And furthermore, people who think that every person is exactly like he or she really is when speaking openly, has a lot of life experience to catch up to.
 

Salomé

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What I find mysterious is why people with good communication skills are usually regarded as less intelligent.
Because it's considered a feminine characteristic.
 

Mia.

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I think, in general, they're far better at being able to include a far greater range of people in their discussions, because most of the time their primary focus is sharing the information to generate participation and new ideas, coupled with some tertiary Fe they can make others feel very included.

This. By many accounts, and including my own perspective from reading on his life, Benjamin Franklin seems like he was an ENTP, and he was as comfortable and charismatic in front of royalty as he was in a tavern with the common people. It is not often that you find someone who is as facile with both types of audience. He was doing exactly as described - generate participation and new ideas and making everyone feel included.

I don't think they come off as more intelligent, though. I think that's a mis-characterization. I think they come off as more engaging to most people. But on a personal level I find INTPs more engaging because they are more intense and that is more interesting to me.
 

entropie

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Because it's considered a feminine characteristic.

Talking much with a lot of tangents which are irrelevant to the main topic maybe is stereotypically considered feminine. But someone who gets what he wants thru communication, I dunno why he or she would be regarded as less intelligent. Thats just people being envious.
 
S

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That's extremely important in life, or at least it is to me and im glad you mentioned it. Ive never understood the hatred some have for 'menial tasks' as some jobs are viewed, alongside the judgements made against those who do them based upon a pre-concieved notion of what constitutes intelligence. But I find those who do this are usually those whose powers of perception go about as deep as a toddlers paddling pool, they see intelligence as being something tangible and tied to success, whereas my view is that nothing could be further from the truth.

people will use anything to represent their intelligence: economical sucess, reading the right books, listening to the right music, dressing in the right clothes and having the right eyesight problems. apearing intelligent is easy enough that you don't actually need to be intelligent, and if you can convince yourself that you are, then you can use it as the last resort of esteem because it isn't tengible, and a lot of people use it in this very manner.

interestingly, the opposite is also true: i remmeber growing up, a kid from my home town had very low esteem on his intelligence, people would actually think he was retarded, as a kid he would repeat the slogan his parents taught him - "i'm not smart but i'm healthy" - i felt sorry for the guy sometimes. then they found out he just had a very very extreme case of ADD, he started taking ritalin and he amazed everyone - turned out to be a freaking math genuis, in physics class the guy placed the rest of our problem solving abilities to shame, and then the army placed him in the IDFs elite computer unit... i havent heard of him since, but the boy has skills.
 

visaisahero

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I'm good with crowds, but my INTP friend is even better. Dealing with people is a skill that can be developed.
 

RicPTmc

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What I find mysterious is why people with good communication skills are usually regarded as less intelligent. The problem with speaking openly is that the words in your head always sound better than the words that you say. And then its the audience itself that starts to give the conversation a certain dynamic, trend or note which it will then start to shift to. That most often results in a lack of quality. It's easier sitting in the back and saying nothing, proclaiming one is the most intelligent person than just speaking to one person.

I am working in politics. I have a pretty huge experience already with speaking to a very wide variety of people, coming from the most different ressorts. It is simple hell and an impossible job at times. You cant just stubbornly follow your plan and ignore everyone, but you cant listen to everyone as well, because that will ruin all of the quality your plan ever had. Coming to terms with people, debating or getting your goals thrugh is a deep pain in the ass, even Vlad the impaler couldnt produce.

To me, a person who thinks someone, because he is talkative, has therefore logically reduced quality or intelligence in his content, has never tried speaking openly themselves or never must. one board of trustees session and you think completly differently about that. And furthermore, people who think that every person is exactly like he or she really is when speaking openly, has a lot of life experience to catch up to.

Do you ever write for yourself?
Did you read what you wrote?
 

RicPTmc

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Unfortunately, when you want to succeed in life, you'll need to develop patience with your much lesser intelligent peers. or one day they'll come and run a pale up your ass and leave you in the sun drieing like Vlad the impaler. :)

Am I wrong or... you always speak about what you exemplarily experience? :)
 

entropie

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Do you ever write for yourself?
Did you read what you wrote?

Yea a very long time ago I wrote myself, but then I started drugs and after that my creativity was gone somehow. Since that I never really recuperated and never started writing again.

Am I wrong or... you always speak about what you exemplarily experience? :)

What else can you speak about ? Everything else is just speculation.
 
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