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  1. #21
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Gotta go to his service tomorrow. Prolly see a bunch of friends who I have not seen in a long time. Also likely a lot of folks I don't know. This is normal set up for a party but am kinda rusty on the funereal mannerisms. Not really looking forward to it. Mostly an informal crowd and many will likely feel a little awkward because the guy was young and died from an OD. Seemed like I got over the worst of it but now with the funerial coming tomarrow that sickly feeling is creeping into my gut again.
    I've never been to a funeral. It just never worked out for me to go to one, though I always had kind of hoped to have a chance to pay my respects in a formal setting. But if it's anywhere near as awkward as most social gatherings with unfamiliar people, I feel for you. At least it's only a few hours or so (right?).
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  2. #22
    Senior Member WoodsWoman's Avatar
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    The more impact a person, pet or place has had on you the more you miss them when they're gone or you have to leave. A more casual friend likely won't impact you as much as a close pet - and only those who have lost children of their own can truly relate to another in that position. The same for loosing a spouse/partner.

    Everything will work out in the long run - in the meantime the short run sucks. ---I'm not sure these things can be defined entirely by type, though it can help. This book Recovery From Loss by Lewis Tagliaferre and Gary L. Harbaugh deals with grief with MBTI preferences.

  3. #23
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Ok thanks will check it out. We were very close friends and then went our separate ways, its hard to calibrate. Just woke from this nasty realistic dream where Jason Voorhees was doing what he does best...I suspect a connection.

    Yes it is awkward, yet prolly is for a lot of other folks who will be there. A professor told me once 90 percent of life is just showing up; think I will just focus on just showing up for now.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  4. #24
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Just heard a good buddy back from high school die. In my mind he was always a friend for life even though we grew apart and I had not seen him in a while. Apparently he started taking pain pills and accidentally overdosed. He was a single parent with a kid.

    I am not the most "in touch with my feelings" type of guy. What I first felt was "nothing" or a void. Was told about it over the telephone and just felt a bit uncomfortable talking to a mutual friend about it and when the funeral service would be.

    After that I felt sick to my stomach and then anxious. Called another friend and told him about it and it didn't make me feel better actually made me feel worse. I don't miss him. The disconnect is there is just discomfort or not feeling well and not like the discomfort of thinking like when you do something stupid and you try and work it out where it will not happen again or otherwise reverse or resolve this conundrum. I think when my mother dies I will have to see a doctor because since I love her more than anybody it will likely do the most damage.

    The cause and effect seem to be there but very difficult to trace.

    How does other NT deal with these more emotional events, particularly death? Do the way we feel differ greatly from others? Is there a norm? Is there suggested acts to do to get through the process better?
    What always helps me a lot is the realisation that, though life is very shitty now, in the grant scheme of things it will turn out all right again. If there is such a thing as a miracle cure I haven't found it yet.

    Also, I try to understand that grief is a physiological reaction in my body, and that in time it will diminish. I often become a huge alcoholic after something happens, but then after a couple of days, when the initial reaction weirs of I realize I'm on a road to self-destruction and that it's not making me happy and I quit it again. I do not allow me to become cynical or passive aggressive, though the temptation is great. I know that this will only sink me in further.

    Basically, what I do is aim at the future. Towards a time where I no longer grief and can accept whatever happened. I try my very best to do the things I would do at that moment, live my life the way I would. And then the emotion eventually follows.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    When my oldest brother died, I just avoided everyone. Didn't go to his funeral, didn't shed a tear and I rarely think of him. It's as if he never existed. I still feel guilty to this day for avoiding my father in his lowest moment but I don't think I would have been strong enough to comfort my father through his breakdown. I watched my dad hold his hand as they turned the machines off - that was more than enough for me. It's been 13 years and it still sucks ass when I think about it.
    What a bone chilling story.

  5. #25
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    I deal with it fully in my head. I'll completely refuse anyone who wants to talk about it, and I'll avoid people who are sad about whatever death it was.

    Generally, I'll give myself 1 day or so to grieve and feel crappy or whatever, and then do my best to forget about it and completely move on.

    EDIT: Jeno, I see a lit of similarities in how you handled that to how I would've handled it. Also that sounds horrible, sorry you had to go through that crap.
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    Eh, I'll finish it later.

  6. #26
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I have not had a lot of death in my life, and when it does come up, I've been alarmingly detached. The first one was a great great grandmother, when I was 10, and as I vaguely remembered her from years before, and she was not a significant presence in my life, it was basically nothing to me. Just another family get together. That was on my father's side. Now forward 13 year later, and I'm just coming home from the Air Force, (which I had ran off to to escape problems at home, and it didn't work out). My mother's mother dies rather suddenly, at 81. Of all the people in the family, she was the one who was most tolerant and understanding of me, and telling my parents to let me alone and I would grow up OK. I even was upset that the building she lived in when I was really young sat abandoned for almost two decades (they did finally renovate it a few years later, but totally changed the interior).
    Yet, I was still totally detached and emotionless. I now felt bad that I could not muster any emotion, and was terrified others would think I didn't care.
    But I could not help it. To me, it's like "what's the use"? She was 81, her husband had died at 84, and the great grandmother had died at 77, so I figured that was our basic life expectancy. What's the sense of being emotional?

    It seems emotion and crying came to be associated more with one's own wants and trying to get others to pity you and move them to rectify wrongs you are suffering. But when I was young, the solid TJ environment I was in eventually made it clear crying would not get you anything anymore (except, sometimes, a spanking even). So sometime in my youth, I just stopped crying, and it was replaced with anger instead. That seemed more "strong" while crying was just showing weakness, and even if someone did come to your aid, like against bullies, it was still embarrasing, and they would be even more after you for being so "soft".
    And besides, all of my emotions were then focused on all the problems (wrongs) in the rest of my life. (Like coming back to those bad conditions at home).

    In the case of death from natural old age, again; like what's the use? It's not a "wrong"; it's just nature, and nothing can be done about it. If crying doesn't bring them back, again; what's the use?
    I even thought of it from her perspective, and how hard it must be to be that old and constantly in pain and ill health and needing assistance. We want them to stay around for our sake, but still, they cannot even interact with us they way they used to.
    I felt bad that I seemed to have more emotions for the fear of her old building being destroyed than for her herself, but I was by that time an evangelical Christian, and she was a saved believer, so I believed she would go to Heaven, or that God would return and fix up this earth and resurrect all the saved dead. Because of the fact that a building is a purely earthly object, and not an eternal soul, and that it does bring back memories of her while I'm still in this world, (and it can last much longer than a human lifespan, and its being allowed to decay was basically a "wrong" commited by the owners) is why it appears to come out like me caring more about the building than her. Seems backwards, but it is my way being being emotionally attached to the person. But nobody would have understood that.
    (I particularly remember the Thanksgivings, and I used to spend weekends there as well. It was like a place of warmth in the midst of a totally blighted area. For reference, this is very close to where Jenocyde lives from where she pointed, and the area is coming back now, but she can probably imagine what it was like 35 years ago in the height of urban decay. The scars are still all around).

    Another part of the "Grandmother's" experience was the bus ride across town. I also became nostalgic about the 60's/70's era buses. A bunch of them were kept as "museum fleet", and displayed downtown Brroklyn one Sunday every fall (but I can't go anymore because I work on Sundays; the last one just a couple of weeks ago), and once, seeing how they had to struggle starting them up, it reminded me of my grandmother, and I thought how it would be nice if were were like those machines, and in death would rest most of the time, but could be "started up" for special occasions like that.

    It's obvious that I relate more to things than people, and basically project my love to them with associated things or places. And to think, I was led to believe I might be an F, and had to struggle with that dichotomy. The way that was rationalized however, was to distinguish between Fe and Fi and make Fi out to be outwardly cold and detached, as it is an internal function. But still, from what I see, FP's, as just as much Feeling types still have an easier time feeling and showing some sign of emotion, even though FJ's might be more openly expressive. The function attitude is not really about display anyway, as some assume.

    My father at one point after the funeral did express his concern. He did acknowledge the possibility that perhaps, I just "accept" death. I tried to assure him that it was because she lived a good life and all, and that when his mother died, I would be more sad, as she had a very rough life, and remains miserable. She, amazingly, is still kicking in there, at 92, considering all of her lifelong stress, misery, alcohol abuse, etc. while the other grandmother was a quiet church lady. Yet she was very difficult to be around, and one of the hardest on me. (Most likely, ESTJ).

    Now, that I'm seeing my lack of emotions as tied to type, as well as possible AS, I realize I might not be much more emotional when she dies after all. I do dread getting the call; but once again; what's the use. It's so fortunate and miraculous that she lived this long. What else do we expect? As concrete S's, my parents have not been interested in type/temperament, though my mother recently did express some curiosity about the type code. So at our holiday gatherings, hopefully I'll get to explain this to them, and warn them about future funerals.

    That is, assuming my grandmother is next. My wife worries about my father, who has smoked himself into a bad case of emphyzema. It would be messed up if he ends up going before his mother. NOW, death would be striking closer than it ever has. (Even though he is almost the age his grandmother was at when she died). So far, the only other really close people who have died were some people like a godmother and a superintendant who were very close and loved when I was younger. By the time I was grown, they were gone from my life, and eventually back down south. When I heard about their deaths sometime afterward; again, it was a very detached "oh, well, what's the use".

    So I have no idea how I will react when my parents die. Or any family member (brother, wife, etc) or close friend from a tragedy (accident, murder, etc). Something like murder, since that is a kind of "wrong", will definitely evoke emotion, but since no one has ever caused anything that bad to me, I don't know how I would take it. Accidents; I'll probably try to find someone to blame, and then that will become a "wrong" too.
    I was from childhood always afraid of the notion of someone close dying. I have no idea what it is like, to just be without a parent, sibling or spouse for the rest of this life. That kind of death has just stayed away. Funny, as in another recent long post, I shared how my teenage/single life was basically a total washout. But it seems like this is almost recompensed by death staying so far from me for so long, while you see it on the news every night, for total strangers far removed from you. Yet it is coming though, eventually.
    (Not sure what's with this spate of self-revelation. Like just the right topics at the right time).
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  7. #27
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your help and your stories, they helped too.

    I went to the funeral. It was rather bleak and there was no real host or MC. A lot of divisions in his family. Of all of the people there it seemed I was the most connected or interconnected of them all (which is odd because when he was alive I always felt more of an outsider or orbiter.

    I just basically used my opening skills/rapport building strategies from my pickup game in a normal social (nonsexual context) with a lot of humility and more listening. Seemed like there was a closer connection between associates who used to kinda give me the cold shoulder before. Like I had inherited some of the friendship W had with his friends The fact that I was one of the few people who knew all the different circles helped me bring members of the funeral party together or otherwise initiate conversation with those who appeared quiet introverted or in emotional pain.

    Said a little prayer to him touching the box holding his ashes.

    Told some stories about him, but the best ones where the ones people wouldn't think would be appropriate at a funeral (i.e. W acting mischievous). And really thats what we used to enjoy when we hung out...taking shit and relaying stories of each other or our friends acting mischievous/badly in a tone as if such acts were a badge of honor. Felt an emotional connection and felt I helped in a small way of making the funeral a success. Think W (who I would say was a ESFx) would be happy with me in making his funeral party more friendly bonding experience and thats what really counts. When I was ready to go I was tempted just to disappear but I made it a point to say goodbye to a few key friends and those who I established special rapport with.

  8. #28
    Senior Member WoodsWoman's Avatar
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    You did extremely well. No stories - especially those with humor - are bad at times like this. It's been 8 months and I still want to hear any stories friends and family wish to share involving my husband. I want - even need - those stories/memories. You have shown yourself to have been a truer friend than many in this situation.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Timmy's Avatar
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    My friend's funeral on Saturday was good. Lots of good memories shared, and I was invited to sit with his unit in the church. The service at the National Memorial Cemetery was great...and watching all the EOD Techs pound their badges into his coffin was a sight to behold...and an honor to watch. Though I've always been a civilian, I've known these guys for the better part of a decade. Watching the other civilians cringe when the badges were being hammered into his coffin was...interesting.

    I just thought it was fucking cool.

    That said, I've been to 3 military funerals and always cry like a little girl at the salute. Gets me every time.

  10. #30
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    My friend's funeral on Saturday was good. Lots of good memories shared, and I was invited to sit with his unit in the church. The service at the National Memorial Cemetery was great...and watching all the EOD Techs pound their badges into his coffin was a sight to behold...and an honor to watch. Though I've always been a civilian, I've known these guys for the better part of a decade. Watching the other civilians cringe when the badges were being hammered into his coffin was...interesting.

    I just thought it was fucking cool.

    That said, I've been to 3 military funerals and always cry like a little girl at the salute. Gets me every time.
    Amen!
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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