[ENTP] ENTP are manipulators?

[thisGuy]

how the hell? ive never successfully been able to manipulate anybody on purpose. actions that might seem manipulative to an audience might have taken place, but the persons involved know exactly whats going on and they do not feel manipulated (or do you?). i sure as hell dont feel 'crafty' cuz i 'manipulated' them. explanation is as follows

from observation i know that im sincere till the subject of my attention diverges away from my focus/heading...like we hit a fork in the road. i go one way, the other person goes the other way. thats when i stop taking the initiative to make them the subject of my attention. i still go out of my way to help them when they need it

management science calls that conserving your resources. behavioural psychology would call that healthy in that it is putting an end to idling your mind on something/someone that doesn't need that attention anymore. social norms apparently calls that being manipulative
how the fuck is that being manipulative

------a possible explanation
i think people take us for being manipulative cuz we (i) can tell exactly what people's intentions and even motivations are. in order to be manipulative, one needs leverage. ENTPs are in the know of that leverage and therefore assumed to be manipulative.
so in essence, you just want us to fit in with your framework which is founded on YOUR intelligence and understanding. understanding which doesn't usually include knowing about other people's intentions. so when you DO find about people's motivations, you put that kind of information on the pedestal and try to take full advantage. since ENTPs usually already know that information, you assume that they too put it on the pedestal and take full advantage...dont you

 

[Shimmy]

I reckon you wanted to reply to this thread? Post reported so it can be merged.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Glad I'm not an ENTP then. They sound so mean! INTP=

 

[thisGuy]

I reckon you wanted to reply to this thread? Post reported so it can be merged.

not really.

going around and reading comments like "ENTPs are master manipulators" is what prompted this new topic

 

[jenocyde]

I think everyone can manipulate, just in different ways. I don't know why ENTPs and ENFJs get singled out for it, though. Something about the Fe charm pisses people off if they feel they've been duped is my best guess. I think that's what angers me the most when I get manipulated by an ENFJ.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

ENTPs can sure confuse a person with clever wording and the immature ones like to play childish tricks, but manipulators? No, not in my experience. And I have a lot. I don't think they could stay interested long enough to effectively manipulate.

 

[Jaguar]

I prefer to talk with INTPs.

 

[Domino]

I think everyone can manipulate, just in different ways. I don't know why ENTPs and ENFJs get singled out for it, though. Something about the Fe charm pisses people off if they feel they've been duped is my best guess.

Agreed.

I think that's what angers me the most when I get manipulated by an ENFJ.

Does this include when I grope your boobs? Because they're really nice and I'm kinda gropey. Plus, you only slapped me twice, so full speed ahead!

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Talking is acceptable to INTPs as long as the other people do most of it.

 

[Wild horses]

I had a friend (Female ENTP) who was many shades of charming... some of them dangerous... and she would openly admit to manipulating people, however, obviously you can't brand a type on one friend... Besides I agree with Jeno.. all types can be manipulative... just some are better at it

 

[thisGuy]

I think everyone can manipulate, just in different ways. I don't know why ENTPs and ENFJs get singled out for it, though. Something about the Fe charm pisses people off if they feel they've been duped is my best guess. I think that's what angers me the most when I get manipulated by an ENFJ.

the common denominator is Fe

that means people using Fe in everyday life are scarce in that the majority of the population fails to recognize it correctly and presumes it to be fake sincerity...as they can't get a handle on it

that agrees with the MBTI dispersion stats, doesnt it

Ne is random
Ni is awkward
Se is cool
Si is classy
Fe is wtf/unkown therefore suspicious...something the 'logic' people can't seem to rationalize
Fi is

 

[Jaguar]

Talking is acceptable to INTPs as long as the other people do most of it.

Is that your way of telling me you hear voices while drinking Jack Daniels?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

the common denominator is Fe

that means people using Fe in everyday life are scarce in that the majority of the population fails to recognize it correctly and presumes it to be fake sincerity...as they can't get a handle on it

that agrees with the MBTI dispersion stats, doesnt it

Fe is certainly not rare, with xSFJs being two of the most common types.

I do see why a function directly related to the feelings of others would have a connection with manipulation. But I think if there is any pattern to be noted in the preferences of which types are accused of manipulation, it is with extraversion in general.

 

[Shimmy]

not really.

going around and reading comments like "ENTPs are master manipulators" is what prompted this new topic

My apologies then. I missed the context.

 

[jenocyde]

But I think if there is any pattern to be noted in the preferences of which types are accused of manipulation, it is with extraversion in general.

That depends on the type of manipulation. Crying fits and withholding affection is something that I see in introverts a lot.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

That depends on the type of manipulation. Crying fits and withholding affection is something that I see in introverts a lot.

Okay, but I'm talking about the pattern on this forum of which types are accused of manipulation. I noted extraversion because ExxJs and ExTPs are the types I see mentioned most often. Maybe because of the fact that this forum has so many introverts. Or maybe because of something else.

 

[thisGuy]

My apologies then. I missed the context.

unneeded

Fe is certainly not rare, with xSFJs being two of the most common types.

I do see why a function directly related to the feelings of others would have a connection with manipulation. But I think if there is any pattern to be noted in the preferences of which types are accused of manipulation, it is with extraversion in general.

SFJ dont come across as manipulative to me although i remember talking to an ISFJ and thinking 'dude...wheres that tact'

so yes, SFJ manipulation is not unheard of (probably also has to do with the origins of the 'do i look fat' question)

i am thinking Fe + Nx is what sprays kerosene over the gunpowder

 

[Valuable_Money]

Im better at nonemotional forms of manipulation, if only because most people are seriously creeped out by me for some reason.

 

[epp]

I CAN be manipulative, I'm actually very good at it, but I hate it.

I don't do emotional manipulation (meaning crying or getting on other person's nerves to get what I want), no. it's more like... for some reason I can really see "through" most people, as people are so easy to read and most of them are very VERY automatic indeed. they behave in certain patterns, they blab about themselves all the time - and they are not even aware of it themselves!!!

it actually takes only half an hour max to see what makes them tick, what are their weak spots etc. so basically it's possible to manipulate people by "clicking" only so very lightly on those... needs and emotions.

e.g. when someone's basic and first need is to feel important then my manipulation would be to hint only very lightly and very calmly that i don't really admit their superiority... and stick to it (this is the important part!)

there is absolutely no need to do anything more as given person will do anything to prove that he IS important and should be respected. and he WILL continue, going to extremes and be ridiculous...

until he realizes that himself
and understands that BY making himself so ridiculous he himself has actually PROVEN to me that he really can't be respected...

after that he will do anything you ask and/or run when he sees so much as your shadow. but he will never ever try to f... with you again...

it's like a front-row ticket to a circus... watch and learn how a human being is going to make a complete and utter fool of himself.

beauty!

I only do something like that when someone has really done me wrong (e.g. my former boss who wasn't going to pay me the money I had earned honestly!!!)
I really really hate it because I hate to see that people are so EASY to read. I hate that I know exactly how to hurt someone.
I hate that I don't even have to strain myself to do something like that. it's just SO. FUCKING. EASY. it's not even funny!!!

I've also realized that's the main reason why I haven't really wanted to live with any guy so far... because I've seen them through and I have known I COULD manipulate them any time... and that's not equity...

and I'm sure now that's the main reason I fell in love with an ENTJ, a very mature one - it's impossible to move him any way I want, I can't even do the typical female nagging-thing. it just doesn't work on him

(recently I've come to the conclusion nagging must come with XX chromosomes as EVERY single woman I know, even the most rational and mature one has admitted to at least TRYING to do it... a INTJ friend of mine who just got 39 recently described me that... I was like "ET TU!!!" and she said "yea, well, seems like I am a woman after all... took me 39 years to realize but better late than never")

sure he has his weak spots, everyone does, me too, I've demonstrated you at least two of them in this post, but the difference is - he is AWARE of those. therefore I can't "click" on those! he's not automatic!

 

[Kalach]

Say, you know how when an ENTJ has decided some plan for how things are going to work and you can't really get a word in edgewise because they've decided and that's how it's going to be? Well, that's Te, and the decision is about some third thing, not you, not him, but the procedure for how and what is going to be done. Now... Fe. It does the same kind of thing, except the decision is not about some third thing, it's about you. For better or worse, someone else has made a positive choice about what you will do or feel or be guided toward.

If you feel great about what the other person chose for you, if you feel together with him as a result, and harmoniously reaching for further happiness, I guess you won't worry too much about manipulation. You might even call it cooperation. Or love.


He speculates.