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  1. #231
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post

    Exactly. I was thinking of Prometheus, the new Ridley Scott movie, and how it reminds me so much of his other movie Alien. And then I suddenly realized that Kane, the android scientist, behaved precisely like a cunning INTJ Mastermind throughout the movie. I watched this movie when it first came out and he had me COMPLETELY fooled. Kane was not a powerful or daunting figure in the movie, just a sly, behind-the-scenes manipulator of events. He was always giving "logical" reasons why the crew should do this or that, such as landing on the planet with the aliens. But his logic was based on only those facts he chose to present. And the results were spectacularly successful, although I'm not sure to this day whether or not the Earth government really knew what it was getting itself into.

    Spock in some Star Trek episodes had a similar INTJ Mastermind methodology. The best example of this was the TOS 2-part episode The Menagerie, in which Spock finds a way to logically save his old Captain Pike from a fate worse than death, while at the same time walking a fine line between life and death himself, having violated the Star Fleet order to avoid Talos IV on penalty of death.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Exactly. I was thinking of Prometheus, the new Ridley Scott movie, and how it reminds me so much of his other movie Alien. And then I suddenly realized that Kane, the android scientist, behaved precisely like a cunning INTJ Mastermind throughout the movie. I watched this movie when it first came out and he had me COMPLETELY fooled. Kane was not a powerful or daunting figure in the movie, just a sly, behind-the-scenes manipulator of events. He was always giving "logical" reasons why the crew should do this or that, such as landing on the planet with the aliens. But his logic was based on only those facts he chose to present. And the results were spectacularly successful, although I'm not sure to this day whether or not the Earth government really knew what it was getting itself into.

    Spock in some Star Trek episodes had a similar INTJ Mastermind methodology. The best example of this was the TOS 2-part episode The Menagerie, in which Spock finds a way to logically save his old Captain Pike from a fate worse than death, while at the same time walking a fine line between life and death himself, having violated the Star Fleet order to avoid Talos IV on penalty of death.
    Here is an interesting evil INTJ Mastermind, although the guy in real life could be an INTP Architect or an ENTP Inventor.

  3. #233
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Here is an interesting evil INTJ Mastermind, although the guy in real life could be an INTP Architect or an ENTP Inventor.
    Fail. He doesn't even have fangs.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #234
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    In my experience, the INTP strives for objectivity while the INTJ only puts on a show of objectivity. But to be truly objective can be socially detrimental, whereas the INTJ not only has the ability to ACT objective (thus appearing intelligent, which they are anyway) but to also be socially successful. The INTP loathes the entire social arena and often shows this fact; the INTJ also loathes the social arena, but hides this fact in an effort to manipulate it and achieve certain goals (be they career goals or whatever). The supposed objectivity of the INTJ reduces to vaguely concealed rationalizations which go over the heads of the intellectually naive. The INTP pays a social price for pursuing pure objectivity in all things; the INTJ gains socially by appearing objective while in actuality merely "playing the game."
    Interesting. My SO is INTP, and is much more willing to socialize than I, just jumps in without premeditation and is usually well-received. I socialize much more reluctantly, and when I do, it is usually with some specific agenda or goal in mind. We are older than lots of folks here, though, so perhaps all this just comes from being more mature.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #235
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Interesting. My SO is INTP, and is much more willing to socialize than I, just jumps in without premeditation and is usually well-received. I socialize much more reluctantly, and when I do, it is usually with some specific agenda or goal in mind. We are older than lots of folks here, though, so perhaps all this just comes from being more mature.
    There is that coldly rational aspect of the INTJ. They often feel more comfortable hanging with "their own kind" (family, close friends, people from their church). Apart from that, their methodology in the social realm is to "pretend to be human," or to put it better, closer to the average. And so I get a strong impression that I'm being talked down to from someone who is trying to think on my level. But I think that is the effect of a mind that moves so rapidly that the real world can't keep up with it, so they have to slow their minds down in an effort simply to communicate.

    I am reminded again of Kane who saved someone's life solely because that person was crucial to the mission, although he had to pretend to truly care about saving that person's life in order to maintain his cover.

    As for your wife, I fully expect a female INTP to be more generally sociable than the males due to societal gender distiinctions.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #236
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    As for your wife, I fully expect a female INTP to be more generally sociable than the males due to societal gender distiinctions.
    i have noticed the same thing with me and my INTJ friend(who has said that he wouldnt mind living in some city where he wouldnt know anyone, as long as he had his computer..), so its not just older female INTP thing.
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  7. #237
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    As for your wife, I fully expect a female INTP to be more generally sociable than the males due to societal gender distiinctions.
    Do you believe this in general, that gender is a stronger influence on observed behavior than type? Would you expect the balance to be different for different types?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #238
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Do you believe this in general, that gender is a stronger influence on observed behavior than type? Would you expect the balance to be different for different types?
    I think INT males have an easier time developping in todays society (finding their 'place') than INT females. I haven't given much thought about gender distinctions between the other types.

    For INTP's for example, females tend to be forced to mature their Fe more, becoming much more social creatures, if only to become 'socially accepted' in their environment, but also put more stress on their dominate function as opposed to INTP males. INTP males don't have the same amount of pressure on them that wants to force them out of their shells.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #239
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Do you believe this in general, that gender is a stronger influence on observed behavior than type? Would you expect the balance to be different for different types?
    I generally believe it because I've seen others express the same thought around these parts. And it meshes with my people-watching experiences well enough. The social pressure on females is greater than it is on males. My observations indicate that females are forced to socially conform more than males are. But, I don't think that males and females have different social needs, only that females are more encouraged to develop their social ability. Those abilities don't necessarily have to do with becoming popular, it could be that or these abiliities (such as empathy) could be limited to a small circle of friends.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #240
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    INTP I would think is the quickest type to shoot their own theories down, and INTJ would be the type most self assured in the validity of their own theories. Also INTP is very lazy, whereas INTJ is the highest achiever potentially of all the types. INTJs I would also imagine are more domineering and overall not as nice if they are at a low level, although a high level INTJ could be far more well principled than INTP.

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