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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Default Do perceivers have a better understanding of...

    ...CORRELATION?

    I heard an ENTJ once said, something like this,

    "The ideal man would be someone like me (or my archetype), without my bad traits."

    Even if he recognizes his faults, I still find the statement to be egotistic. Though actually, it's not the egotism that surprises me, but the merits of the statement.

    I could have responded something like,

    "Well, that can't be possible, right? For almost every positive trait you manage to develop, something perceivably bad comes with it. The good comes with the bad, it's like they're interlocked. Yin and Yang. One comes with the other. That's why morality is relative, with few absolute grounds."

    ______________

    It's kinda like Perceiving and Judging. Correlated. But more like inversely proportional with each other. You can't increase J when you develop P and vice versa. Each of them have their good and bad traits.

    They cannot be separated in such a way that one can just have a wishful thinking of not having some of the traits or trade-offs that a certain decision makes.

    _____________

    The statement the ENTJ said made me think of TJs actually think of character progression as something like an RPG-like leveling up where there's a clean-cut progression where there's hardly minimal tradeoff.

    On the other hand, a perceiver may value hierarchical equality because of their full awareness of trade-offs, and it helps them better by seeing things in gray, hence the carefulness in decision making.

  2. #2
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    You are on your way to learn something not many people know. And you are on the right way

    I dont know if it can be described via mbti terms and I dont want to try
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Is there a reason you're attributing this to this person's J-ness (or TJ-ness) specifically?

  4. #4
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    i do...that much i know

    it IS hard to register the two sides-of-a-coin paradigm with a xxxJ unless they have a vested interest in the information...otherwise you will face apathy that you will recognize as being the future downfall of their person

  5. #5
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Well, you really have some issue with ENTjs, it seems...
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #6
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Its typically ENTJ arrogance... tey tend to value the things they are good at and not value the things they are bad at. They can be very difficult to get on with, massively controling etc.

    For all traits ave both good and bad sides when taken to extreme. Say you are a particuarly sunny character who smiles all the time. The downside is that when bad news needs to be broken or you are disciplning kids it's difficult to seem appropriate.

    For ENTP's there can be a down side to their skills aquisition.... being too capable makes others feel incapable and unwilling to support you because they can't compare or will feel their efforts are poor... hence selective vulnerability is key for an ENTP to learn.

    As for P/J well that is preference... P's typically don't like J things, when taken to their extreme they are forever getting their phone cut off/bills not paid because they haven't got their act together. I can be quite J typed when I'm trying to learn a new skill

  7. #7
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Do perceivers have an inadequate sense of the completed object? If an ENTJ says the ideal man is me minus bad traits, then he's describing an end-product, after work has been done to minimise bad traits.

    TJs actually do think of character development in terms of leveling-up. Accomplishing, completing, progressing. You are welcome to get over your stasis.


    PS. I'm under the impression NFJs think that way too.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #8
    Senior Member kathara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post



    "The ideal man would be someone like me (or my archetype), without my bad traits."



    "Well, that can't be possible, right? For almost every positive trait you manage to develop, something perceivably bad comes with it. The good comes with the bad, it's like they're interlocked. Yin and Yang. One comes with the other. That's why morality is relative, with few absolute grounds."
    Yes, but those 2nd bad qualities do not have to be identical to the 1st type of bad qualities.

    E.G.

    If an ENTJ is time obsessed, then the idea mate would be relaxed when it came to time. He/she would develop a bad quality, let's say, being air-headed, which is not among ENTJ's flaws. Therefore, it is doable.

  9. #9
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say that Js don't see the correlation that you're talking about here.

    I can't speak for all Js, but I see the fact that there are positives and negatives to everything. I just think that Js are more willing to pick an approach/object/idea that is overall best suited for the situation at hand, and sacrifice the other/s.

    Objectivity is valuable to me, and I seek it to a reasonable extent. However, when it ceases to be useful, I must make a decision based on what it has shown me. Being completely objective is not a functional approach when one exists in such a subjective (human) world from my experience.
    Function Activity:
    Ni > Te > Ti = Fi > Ne > Si = Fe > Se

  10. #10
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    ...CORRELATION?

    I heard an ENTJ once said, something like this,

    "The ideal man would be someone like me (or my archetype), without my bad traits."

    Even if he recognizes his faults, I still find the statement to be egotistic. Though actually, it's not the egotism that surprises me, but the merits of the statement.

    I could have responded something like,

    "Well, that can't be possible, right? For almost every positive trait you manage to develop, something perceivably bad comes with it. The good comes with the bad, it's like they're interlocked. Yin and Yang. One comes with the other. That's why morality is relative, with few absolute grounds."

    ______________

    It's kinda like Perceiving and Judging. Correlated. But more like inversely proportional with each other. You can't increase J when you develop P and vice versa. Each of them have their good and bad traits.

    They cannot be separated in such a way that one can just have a wishful thinking of not having some of the traits or trade-offs that a certain decision makes.

    _____________

    The statement the ENTJ said made me think of TJs actually think of character progression as something like an RPG-like leveling up where there's a clean-cut progression where there's hardly minimal tradeoff.

    On the other hand, a perceiver may value hierarchical equality because of their full awareness of trade-offs, and it helps them better by seeing things in gray, hence the carefulness in decision making.
    I think it's more of a realisation that individuals can have rather then a typical type based thing. That said, there could most certainly be a correlation between this realisation and type.

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