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  1. #1
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    Default Love doesn't equal attachment?

    Love, care, fondness - for anything or anyone. I'm sure we all feel it in a dozen shades and ways.

    To suggest that someone doesn't love their own child, for example, or their spouse or mother, would be a very harsh and extreme thing to say.

    But attachment?

    Do you feel attached to the things and people you love? Is it the same thing?

    It's assumed to be, for sure, by a lot of people. It's even looked for and pointed to as evidence of love and care, or lack of it. I believe this could be at the root of why T's can be seen as "cold".

    I love France, I truly do. But I can survive, being away from it. When my mind wanders to thoughts of France, I smile and feel love and fondness for my country. But I don't feel devastated or anything that I'm not there. I don't cry. I don't move mountains to get to be there all the time. And in fact, I rarely do think about it.

    I love my children, I truly do. But if they go to stay with grandma for however long, I don't really miss them. Occasionally I think of them and I smile and feel love for them. But I don't mope or pine for them, and I don't feel the need to call them up on the phone. When they come back, I'm pleased to see them, but I didn't feel like I couldn't live or anything when they weren't here, and in fact I rarely thought about them at all.

    I'm quite attached to my car. I've been to some awesome places in it, made lots of repairs to it myself and know it like the back of my hand. I've never thought about replacing it, and if I had to, I'd be sorry to see it go and often wish I could have it back again; it's like an old friend to me. But to say that I love my car, as one loves a daughter or one's country, would be absurd.

    I'd die for my children, and I think I would probably die for France, as long as I knew my children would be well cared for. But I wouldn't die for my car. I wouldn't even risk mildly injuring myself to stop it being set on fire.

    For me, it seems that love and attachment are not the same thing; they're not connected.

    Anyone else feel the same way? Have any other examples or insights into why this might be? Think my examples suck and care to explain why? Have friends or relatives who you suspect might feel this way, and you find it strange or incomprehensible? Or feel the complete opposite way, and care to explain how that works?

    I'm just interested in exploring this idea in any way, really.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    WOW... i like that you have said what I have often thought or been critised for... I don't think love and attachment are the same thing at all. In fact I think the saying 'to truely love someone is to set them free' is more than wishful thinking!
    ... couldn't drag me away

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    WOW... i like that you have said what I have often thought or been critised for... I don't think love and attachment are the same thing at all. In fact I think the saying 'to truely love someone is to set them free' is more than wishful thinking!
    that's really interesting in light of you being an ENFP. i've had some very upsetting set-to's with an ENFP who openly measures a person's love and sincerity by the level of attachment they demonstrate.

    that's not why I did this thread by the way lol that was ages ago
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #4
    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    I agree. I can love and not be attached (ie falling out of touch with a dear friend) and be attached without loving.

    It's very easy for me to move on, not necessarily because I didn't love the person but because it's easier for me to detach. For me attachment is mostly formed from spending time with that person. Spending less time with that person just means eventually I'll be less attached to them. But this doesn't mean I no longer care for them.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    I think it is partly to do with my background... I have been around very controlling people all of my life... I have seen what attachment does to both the attached and those they attach themselves too... It is destructive as far as I have seen.... My aim is for sacrificial love that puts the other person before myself in all circumstances.. btu I can't see how the pressure of my attachment would do that... It does not empaower and inspire the other person... It puts pressure and expectation... I think also being an ENFP... I have a basic love of freedom and want to give that to others also.
    ... couldn't drag me away

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerengetiBetty View Post
    I agree. I can love and not be attached (ie falling out of touch with a dear friend) and be attached without loving.

    It's very easy for me to move on, not necessarily because I didn't love the person but because it's easier for me to detach. For me attachment is mostly formed from spending time with that person. Spending less time with that person just means eventually I'll be less attached to them. But this doesn't mean I no longer care for them.
    Do you find that you need to like them to spend time with them, but can still love them without liking them enough yet to spend as much time with them as they might want to?

    IOW, have you ever felt like a person was pressuring you to spend more time with them than you really felt comfortable with or wanted to, at that stage of your acquaintance? And/or subsequently been accused of being a fake and not really liking them, because you've not given into the pressure?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #7

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    One thing that irks me about attachment is the emotional baggage that entails. It can lead to dependence, jealousy, or some other insecurity. Supposing someone had just broken up, having some sort of attachment will only make it more difficult, or more difficult to let go and move on. I do hold onto the notion that love and attachment are separate things. I think that with Buddhism, detachment is one of the paths to Enlightenment. Something to do with acceptance that things can change.

  8. #8
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I think you're onto something there sub. I have an NT friend that describes love in this way... "Love is when you think fondly of something whenever you have a free moment in your life." It's a nice description. Very different than attachment.
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  9. #9
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    WOW... i like that you have said what I have often thought or been critised for... I don't think love and attachment are the same thing at all. In fact I think the saying 'to truely love someone is to set them free' is more than wishful thinking!
    You sound very much like a certain ENFP I know. :P He said something very similar to me once


    But yes... I definitely agree... love does not equal attachment. I'm pretty sure a lot of people struggle with that concept.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    I can't see how the pressure of my attachment would do that... It does not empaower and inspire the other person... It puts pressure and expectation... I think also being an ENFP... I have a basic love of freedom and want to give that to others also.
    Word. Except with a T where you put F

    I think I might've written elsewhere, when I've seen people complaining that their SO didn't seem as attached to them as they wished, or wouldn't "open up" to them, yield up true intimacy... well, that one way to ensure they never do is to keep putting all this pressure on them to do it! you can't force emotions and attachments, you can't force intimacy, and what tends to happen when people try to force a feeling is that they end up getting more than they bargained for, or the exact opposite!

    I know that for me, the experience of spending time around people with Asperger Syndrome has been pretty profound in that I've learned a lot about my own experience of attachment, because of their utter lack of it. I've found that I've attached to them in a way I never have before or since, and I believe that a big part of the reason for that is exactly because I know they expect or desire nothing from me; that although they might sometimes enjoy my company and the things we do together, they don't need it.

    I wonder actually if requiring attachment from a loved one as evidence of their love might not be the product of insecurity? I don't mean that in a derogatory way, as I'm insecure myself in some ways, I admit to it and I think everyone is in some way or another. But perhaps there's a particular kind of insecurity that makes you unable to believe someone actually does love you or like you or whatever, so you're always looking for "proof" of it to reassure yourself. And since there's no way to get tangible proof of abstract emotions that happen inside another person's head, I suppose they latch on instead to evidence of attachment: how often do they visit? how often do they call? how much do they NEED my presence?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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