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  1. #201
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    I think the reasons INTPs have these issues is quite well discussed in the INTPs and depression thread in the NT Rationale.
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  2. #202
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Absolutely not, to the bolded. They're antsy, mopey, self-defeatist, insecure, and crippled by self doubt since they believe they have to be initiators socially and they don't think they can do it. I don't see this as much in the women.
    Are you that way too? Or were you at one time? If so, how did you *escape* that mentality/outlook?

    Serious question, by the way. For me, it's gotten much better with age and life experience, but there's still that big pothole in the road that I could easily fall into (i.e. the types of things you mentioned above) if I don't actively avoid it.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


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  3. #203
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    It is true, though. Men are meant to initiate, for some reason. And INTPs aren't initiators. Though I've found I have to initiate things sometimes to get things happening, because all my friends are IPs and most are rather lazy as well and may be less interested. But it's annoying and I feel whiny and/or uncomfortable when I do it. Is that even what was meant by initiate? Get events going? Because naturally we prefer to sit back and observe as events unfold around us.
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    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

  4. #204
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Reading these generalisations about INTP men not being initiators, it's for certain, not always the case. But maybe it's the age category of twenties where guys haven't figured out what they're capable of yet and that being rejected isn't the most horrendous trauma that could happen to them.

    YMMV.

  5. #205
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Sherlock Holmes View Post
    It is true, though. Men are meant to initiate, for some reason. And INTPs aren't initiators. Though I've found I have to initiate things sometimes to get things happening, because all my friends are IPs and most are rather lazy as well and may be less interested. But it's annoying and I feel whiny and/or uncomfortable when I do it. Is that even what was meant by initiate? Get events going? Because naturally we prefer to sit back and observe as events unfold around us.
    I think maybe IxxPs have a laid-back attitude about external standards/obligations and that does not fly too well with our generally ExxJ-ish workforce/society, I can see how some younger INTPs can feel "defective" in this sense. Alot of people just don't understand that happiness and maturity is not always defined by the traditional external standards(getting married, having kids by 30, money, social status, look at how cheerful I am, acting serious and directive, ect). Most IxxPs(and Ps in general) are driven by their internal standards and alot of times this does not exactly line up with external concerns(sometimes it directly contradicts what is to be expected by society).

    But just because someone does not "fit in" doesn't mean they're going to be completely disgruntled by this either, there is a sharp difference between a content eccentric and a miserable one. I mean the best one can do is to make to best of their situation, most people are not perfect, almost EVERYBODY has problems, fears, worries, very few people are like the brady bunch. I find the concept of a completely "healthy" person who handles any problem perfectly to be a little dubious.
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  6. #206
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Are you that way too? Or were you at one time? If so, how did you *escape* that mentality/outlook?

    Serious question, by the way. For me, it's gotten much better with age and life experience, but there's still that big pothole in the road that I could easily fall into (i.e. the types of things you mentioned above) if I don't actively avoid it.
    Not really. I can see how I could have been pushed into some of those mindsets though, the "seeds" are there, like you say.

    For a lot of these young INTPs with these problems, there exists an odd self-consciousness about how they're perceived that I find to be bizarre and...well, un-INTP. I never cared if I was liked, I just did my own thing and people gravitated toward me and they became my friends. If people didn't like me I didn't care, and people never gave me a hard time at all. I was certainly odd and quirky, but not in the way that everybody seems to dislike

    Self-doubt is an issue, but this is usually only with regards to personal pursuits. I generally think I can do things better than others, but I think I will fall short of what I expect from myself, if that makes any sense. I've had jobs where I've been underqualified, but I get them because I'm adamant in my ability to learn, improvise, and use my mind to excel, and I demonstrate that rather quickly.

    Developing a good self-confidence and trust in one's own mind I think is imperative in the young INTP. That, and coming to grips with the fact that rejection is not the end of the world.



  7. #207
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I do believe that even for INTP's true apathy towards society is difficult to create. Society is a terribly strong beast. If you mix enough failures to feed it, within the mix, you have a child/teen/adult very confused with their natural state and what they are told their natural state should be.

  8. #208
    Junior Member Macabre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I do believe that even for INTP's true apathy towards society is difficult to create. Society is a terribly strong beast. If you mix enough failures to feed it, within the mix, you have a child/teen/adult very confused with their natural state and what they are told their natural state should be.
    It passes pretty quick if there is a level of dtatchment from society. As an INTP, my society generally hates me and my type, hence resulting in fewer of us. those that remain are absolutely nuts. There is this tremendous backlash against the system, despite already not being part of it. so we intp's are maladjusted by these standards. sue us, G-men.
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  9. #209
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    You still have an opinion on society which prevents you from being completely ambivalent.

  10. #210
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    You still have an opinion on society which prevents you from being completely ambivalent.
    Do you mean equanimous?

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