User Tag List

First 61415161718 Last

Results 151 to 160 of 223

  1. #151
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    67sx
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    What do you think would be a good thing for a thirty-nine year old man with a wife and four kids, a BA in Biblical Studies, a CDL, and over a hundred thousand dollars in student loans to do in order to become financially free . . . I mean besides leaving the kids and I, cashing out his 401K and crashing on the beach in a third world country?
    LOL! You just told me you don't need more money, your kids don't need more money, you're just fine where you are, and then ask me what he should do to make more money?? :-)

    First of all, tell him to do the MBTI test. You are not sure he is really INTP, which makes things difficult. A BA in Biblical Studies isn't the first thing INTPs go for, you know... we tend not to believe in the supernatural.

    Assuming he is though, I would suggest:

    - start a business, make a million (need to master a number of disciplines ranging from legal to administrative to strategic... I think only a supersmart INTP can do it properly and only an overconfident ENTJ can wing it and still succeed)

    - invest the million or grow the business to make 10 millions (need to really understand money, finance, investment of at least one kind)

    That should be enough for most people with a family, though he should be prepared to give up almost everything else in his life for a number of years. After he starts he may realize it's fun though; this is in the end just a system like any other... but one which feeds you, instead of consuming clock cycles and requiring you to feed it. And you're not suspending your life to do this, rather you're discovering your hunting instincts... all emotions get rewired accordingly from risk perception to one's self image. You become more alpha and confident in many ways.

  2. #152
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    67sx
    Posts
    89

    Default

    PS: I realize I just wrote something inexact, it drives me crazy to have to achieve perfection in writing because I waste hours ... any type can start a business and succeed as long as they do something they like and are ready to sweat. I will write a post on this but I have the strong intuition that INTPs are very much predisposed to "making it alone" as in, no employees, just learn some technical stuff, some marketing, some investment and be your own company. Doing it this way like me requires so much studying that most other types (except perhaps intjs??) will be discouraged and quit after not too long. And this is not the best way to do it either, if you're entj and like commanding people and dealing with lawyers and investors and employees then fine - most people hate that sort of stuff though. Even though it's not half as bad as BEING the employee that's handled.

    I touched a topic that's too complex to write anything brief about. Scratch everything.

  3. #153
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    PS: I realize I just wrote something inexact, it drives me crazy to have to achieve perfection in writing because I waste hours ... any type can start a business and succeed as long as they do something they like and are ready to sweat. I will write a post on this but I have the strong intuition that INTPs are very much predisposed to "making it alone" as in, no employees, just learn some technical stuff, some marketing, some investment and be your own company. Doing it this way like me requires so much studying that most other types (except perhaps intjs??) will be discouraged and quit after not too long. And this is not the best way to do it either, if you're entj and like commanding people and dealing with lawyers and investors and employees then fine - most people hate that sort of stuff though. Even though it's not half as bad as BEING the employee that's handled.

    I touched a topic that's too complex to write anything brief about. Scratch everything.
    I have no problem working with others as long as they do their jobs.

    In fact, I dislike being a worker in my teens moreso than having people work for me. I have control on things now, where before if I saw something I didn't like I couldn't do much about it.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #154
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    LOL! You just told me you don't need more money, your kids don't need more money, you're just fine where you are, and then ask me what he should do to make more money?? :-)

    First of all, tell him to do the MBTI test. You are not sure he is really INTP, which makes things difficult. A BA in Biblical Studies isn't the first thing INTPs go for, you know... we tend not to believe in the supernatural.

    Assuming he is though, I would suggest:

    - start a business, make a million (need to master a number of disciplines ranging from legal to administrative to strategic... I think only a supersmart INTP can do it properly and only an overconfident ENTJ can wing it and still succeed)

    - invest the million or grow the business to make 10 millions (need to really understand money, finance, investment of at least one kind)

    That should be enough for most people with a family, though he should be prepared to give up almost everything else in his life for a number of years. After he starts he may realize it's fun though; this is in the end just a system like any other... but one which feeds you, instead of consuming clock cycles and requiring you to feed it. And you're not suspending your life to do this, rather you're discovering your hunting instincts... all emotions get rewired accordingly from risk perception to one's self image. You become more alpha and confident in many ways.
    I asked because you seemed so convinced it was a wonderful idea. We don't need more money, but I wouldn't mind having more. I won't put my wants before his needs.

    I am trying to figure out if you have any idea what you're talking about in terms how how things work for working class people in real life. Usually people who say the kidns of things you're saying are pretty clueless about coming up with any kind of workable plan for people who are basically starting out behind the eight ball.

    So far, I'm unimpressed.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #155
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    67sx
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I asked because you seemed so convinced it was a wonderful idea. We don't need more money, but I wouldn't mind having more. I won't put my wants before his needs.

    I am trying to figure out if you have any idea what you're talking about in terms how how things work for working class people in real life. Usually people who say the kidns of things you're saying are pretty clueless about coming up with any kind of workable plan for people who are basically starting out behind the eight ball.

    So far, I'm unimpressed.
    I didn't say it would be a wonderful idea I was just a bit surprised hearing you talk about your situation as "no longer broke" and thought it a pity that most INTPs do not use their phenomenal brain to make their life easier.

    "We don't need more money, but I wouldn't mind having more. "

    No offense but... that kind of thinking is very common and unfortunately it is quite self defeating. I see good people with good intentions and hard working and even with skills in demand in society being held back and doomed to spend their life worrying about money, just because of the dysfunctional ideas about money that they learned implicitly from their parents.

    I know very well how working class people think and live. I left home at 17 and emigrated, my dad stopped paying for school mid-way and I started working for myself. I survived very well with 1000$ us/month for a number of years. I was employed in a company for a few years, by then I made a lot more. They tried to rob me with legal loopholes. At the office I ripped THEM off by playing supermario and learning languages instead of really working. I saved a lot. I thought money was scarce. I denied any comfort to myself, and after 8 years I had saved a little fortune, which I then lost and I may recover it at some point but at that time my account went to zippety zero in a split second due to a very grave mistake, again given by too much concern for safety which paradoxically compromised everything.

    Then I was a freelancer. I had customers not pay me and all. I've done hard time!!

    "The way things work for working class people in real life" is that they are ready to accept any amount of labor, boredom and humiliation in order to feel safe. The psychology of money. Safety vs Risk. If you're born in a family where money is scarce you grow up thinking money doesn't exist, and that those who have it hold on to it very tight. You will seek safety at whatever cost. If you're born in a rich family you are taught to invest, not save, and you have sensory grounding for the long term process of working first, and seeing the results much later which is completely in conflict with human nature and what comes natural to us opportunistic hunter gatherers.

    Now when you say you are unimpressed - did you expect me to lay out a financial plan? Here's the financial plan: you can do everything you ever want, if you try and don't give up. Really as simple as that. No secret. Just the man and the mountain and one million steps.

    The problem with many people - not saying this is you but in general when I have this type of discussion - is that they want a quick solution. Making money is a very fuzzy thing, it's risk management, it's seeking out opportunities actively and not getting discouraged. It's as broad a topic as becoming famous. Everyone does it differently. It's not a step by step process that can be taught. The mindset only, can be taught and is very important. But normally people don't follow through. Delayed gratification, dealing with one's perception of risk, finding a way to love something productive.... it's all abstract stuff. Usually people say "uh ok but you still haven't told me anything specific" - which means they still expected a step to step approach.

    I've tried to teach this to a few people and particularly to my mother who is the most money-stupid person I know and was in part responsible for me missing out on innumerable opportunities. Money is everywhere. Everything you see is made not of matter but of work hours which in turn are made of money. Money was exchanged to make any physical object around you. You are living amidst sacks of dollars and gold bars. Just they were exchanged between people who are not YOU because you didn't contribute to the creation of value.

    Money follows those who are useful to society or who create the conditions by which others must choose between paying, or something worse than paying. So it's not a scarce resource unless you are scarcely useful or not so good at building a monopoly or racketeering. I hate sounding like Dale Carnegie or Kiyosaki but it's really all in the mind. Everyone is ready to give you money at any time, if you just can give them something more valuable than having paper money in their pocket (for instance, a way to multiply said money, or some piece of plastic with lights). Especially rich people are very willing to pay when they receive value. If you live in a poor neighborhood you may never know how fast rich people open the wallet when you stimulate their interest, desires, or show them they can make their life easier or more comfortable.

    I am no rockefeller. I was born in an odd family, parents divorced, father was rich, mom was poor (he didn't give her shiznit nor did she feel compelled to do anything herself, seeing money as something so scarce it was futile to chase it). I've seen both extremes, but ended up thinking like mom. Fortunately I ended up in Japan where young foreigners who speak the language can easily befriend rich entrepreneurs who try to help them to boost their own status (samurai / deshi relationship). I met some rich people and I was open minded enough to listen, and observed very well how they behaved... plus with my technical skills I was often approached by entrepreneurs so it was inevitable that one day I would also overcome my fear of failure and give it a try - if nothing else for the simple fact I hate hierarchy and offices and waking up in the morning...

    I'm absolutely not filthy rich as one may be led to believe by hearing me rant about money - I'm just passionate about expounding the truth on this topic as any INTP would be on any other topic, especially if he runs the risk of providing clarity amidst lots of confusion. Presently I'm investing in my business so chances are you have a lot more comfort than me in your life... also, there are some things which I could have done and I had the connections to do, which would have been a lot more profitable than what I'm doing right now; but the KEY for me and what I want to tell people, is... it's not how much money you make, but the fact that you take all the INTP love for learning, and ALIGN it with what society demands of you. If you don't do that you will always be one of those people who say "I'd like to do such and such, but I have no time because I have to work". Or like me, enjoy my hobbies only 50% because I was feeling guilty all the time about not doing something more directly useful to my life... and then when you're finally working, thinking I'm wasting my life I should be skydiving... that was my point, not try to convince everyone to see wealth as the ultimate goal. If you're another type, a guardian, or a nurturer or something then fine you may like being useful in an office but for me it was just like being in jail so in the end something emerged that now allows me to be free and indulge in my researchy stuff without feeling guilty or that I'm wasting time and so forth.

    The topic may have drifted - what was this all about anyway?

    By the way I do subscribe to Schopenhauer's thoughts on money (as on almost everything else). Money is like seawater, the more you have the thirstier you become. So true. And his other quote: money is for those people who have ceased being able to experience happiness directly. Then they pursue it in the abstract.

    To sum it up, money is nothing as long as you don't need it. But being able to make money doing something interesting and being independent was the best thing that happened to me in a long time, so I'm eager to share. As I do this I may overgeneralize as far as other people feeling the same way.

    I hate to put out non proof read logorrhoeic posts like this one, but I am really so very busy. Just when I start on a train of thought I can't stop myself. There I accept being imperfect. Am I one of those "well adjusted" INTPs? There, I'm back on topic. Smooth exit.

  6. #156
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    That makes sense. My attitude is more like yours, I think. And I'm glad to hear what you say about Japan. I hope that applies to females as well because my (probably INTJ) daughter plans on going there to teach English for awhile after she graduates from college.

    For myself, I want a place in the country were I can raise as much of my own food as possible and I would like very much to bring in some money in the process -- it'd be cool to have some cabins for my kids and other guests to stay in eventually. Maybe let little kids collect eggs and milk goats, etc. I've been considering whether I could get a balut operation going here to make some extra money (too many people around here sell eggs to make it profitable for me on the scale I can do it in town.)

    I know it doesn't probably look like we've done anything big, but it did take quite a bit of effort and investment of time, energy, and thought to get from making under $20K to making more than twice that, being able to buy a house, building and maintaining a good marriage, and raising four kids to be decent people and do well in school (especially since two have autism) -- granted we still have another ten or so years until the kid project is done, but we aren't just sitting in the dirt scratching our butts.

    It's been a pretty big job for me and call me a coward, but I don't want to mess up what we've built to this point over something like money and I also don't intend to drag my husband to, what might be for him, a rural hell on earth.

    The way I look at it, each person is responsible for making their own happiness but part of making happiness is nurturing the important relationships in your life and you have to work within the parameters of what benefits the group as a whole. I am pretty good at blooming where I'm planted. My time is more free now that the kids are older and I'm definitely looking for ideas for improving our lot in life. But I'm not going to knock the way my husband does things or attempt to manipulate him, if that makes sense.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #157
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    I've read from you before cafe, I find it hard to believe your INTP is a truck driver, I mean doesn't he get bored to death? Doesn't sound like a typical INTP occupation... or maybe he's killing himself with audiobooks and taking apart the radio as he drives
    I wanted to be a truck driver for a time.
    Not everyone is motivated solely by financial gain, and not everyone thinks their employment has to be intellectually fulfilling. A mindless occupation that allows one to think in peace and without distraction and which doesn't require too much social interaction/allows one to manage one's own workload/schedule can be ideal for an INTP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #158
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    - start a business, make a million (need to master a number of disciplines ranging from legal to administrative to strategic... I think only a supersmart INTP can do it properly and only an overconfident ENTJ can wing it and still succeed)
    I read your post in its entirety and didn't disagree with a lot of what you wrote. But, what's up with the bolded part? ENTP's can't do what you're talking about? I, for one, know three ENTP's who have done just this. I'm INTP, but why would ENTP's be excluded from having the ability to start a business and make a million?

    INTP's are superior *thinkers* than ENTP's, but ENTP's are superior *doers* than INTP's. And while thinking is very important in starting a business, let us never underestimate the importance of actually doing it. I'm not downplaying the importance of thinking. It's what I do best. But, when it comes to starting a million dollar business - talk is cheap. Real cheap. It's something that has to be done.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  9. #159
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    67sx
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I read your post in its entirety and didn't disagree with a lot of what you wrote. But, what's up with the bolded part? ENTP's can't do what you're talking about? I, for one, know three ENTP's who have done just this. I'm INTP, but why would ENTP's be excluded from having the ability to start a business and make a million?

    INTP's are superior *thinkers* than ENTP's, but ENTP's are superior *doers* than INTP's. And while thinking is very important in starting a business, let us never underestimate the importance of actually doing it. I'm not downplaying the importance of thinking. It's what I do best. But, when it comes to starting a million dollar business - talk is cheap. Real cheap. It's something that has to be done.
    You are entirely right that's why I added the addendum and then asked to scratch all of it out. Lots of INTPs don't do anything, just think, that's very very bad in business, relationships, etc.

    What I wanted to say probably was, that some INTPs are the rare people qualified to actually do it seriously (i.e. managing risk down to a sane level by being prepared in all subfields required) but at the same time lots of other types make it even without being ready for it just because they are so irresponsible they just "try it" with no preparedness whatsoever My boss in the company I used to work for was ESFP. Never understood how he could build a company. That's actually what got me started. If he can do it...

  10. #160
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Happy thread anniversary!

    Even though you're not here anymore, let this attest to the fact that I will continue to torment you until the end of time.



Similar Threads

  1. [INTP] What does this INTP guy want from me?
    By white00 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-08-2017, 10:30 PM
  2. [INTP] How Can I Win the Love of an INTP Guy?
    By I Never Find Peace in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 05-04-2012, 02:08 PM
  3. [INTP] Dating a INTP guy/male ? Tell us your type
    By bulldog in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-11-2011, 01:26 AM
  4. [INTP] Romantically connecting and communicating with an INTP guy?
    By memz in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 07-01-2011, 07:35 AM
  5. [INTP] Help with INTP guy and smoking?
    By yupyupyup in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 09-28-2010, 10:24 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO