User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 10

  1. #1
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,532

    Default ENTP/ISTJ relationships

    Has anyone experienced a relationship with an ISTJ? My mom (ISTJ) is in a relationship with an ENTP and she's looking for some insight into his brain and why the communication is so difficult sometimes? She says whenever she tries to have him express his feelings he will stonewall her...why is this? When it comes to his feelings he can never spell things out. He always leaves it vague. She wants to know why you ENTP's do this.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  2. #2
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Well 1st of all not all ENTPs are the same. Having Fe in the loop can especially enable someone to talk about ones feeling, whether the attempt is accurate or not tho is not the question.

    I have a longtime ISTJ friend and he is a funny, witty and humourus person when met in a group. And that's basically all there is to say.

    In our group of people I interact with him on that group behaviour level and we get a long like one brain in two bodies. We never have arguements, we manage to come to the same conclusions and I back him up, like he backs me up.

    But when met alone, the silence is awful. We can sit there in a bar waiting for the first bus to come and noone talks a word. If we do talk tho, he turns the discussion into something personal very quickly. He has a set of mind of people, he experiences new people and then after the new people did something crucial, he puts them in drawyers of his cupboard. That's not an unhealthy attitude, cause it can save ur ass from danger.

    What's a problem for him tho, it doesnt work with me. I have multiple personality disorder and its a wonder if you meet the same person in me two days in a row. Therefore he has got huge issues between deciding whether he can trust me or not. On the one hand I prolly appear to him like a likeable guy, even best friend ( we know each other a long time ). Nevertheless he brings unrest to our relationship everytime we are alone and he starts questioning my motives, my beliefes, he even tries to change my very core and make it more like his.

    That's at least how I feel about it. I'ld like to help him and to ease his mind, but we are just not compatible, if we talk. Tho he is a very nice and cool guy and everybody likes him, I nevertheless sometimes get a parent-child like feeling towards him sometimes, in which I am the parent and he is the child. I hardly experienced that feeling before and maybe its part of his strategy, I dont know.

    So all I can say here basically is:

    ISTJ train of thought = very clear and easy too trust, most of the times very good friends
    ISTJ sudden demand on ENTPs showing their motivations = not understandable ( from the point of the person in question )
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #3
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    4,915

    Default

    My 2 cents are .. My kids being ISTJ and ENTP and their relationship is awkward at the best of times.

    The eldest (istj) acts like mom and tell his brother to stop being silly with these quirky ideas (ie head in the clouds) but my youngest (entp) wants to enlighten his brother with this information but almost always gets nowhere with it even when he does persevere.

    They are pretty much on different levels all the time.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  4. #4
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    According to socionics (ISTj is the recipient):

    Asymmetric relationship. One partner (the recipient) feels like he is being watched closely by the other (the transmitter) and becomes overly self-conscious and defensive or apologetic. The transmitter doesn't appreciate most of what the recipient does and underestimates his abilities and personal qualities, which hurts the recipient's self-esteem and can lead to long-lasting scars. The transmitter is surprised by the recipient's sensitivity and doesn't know what to do about it. The recipient feels like he can't take any initiative when he is around the transmitter, who wonders why the recipient doesn't do anything on his own. Difficult relations for a close or medium psychological distance.

    Personally my attempt at a relationship with an ISTJ was very short lived, I felt he was mostly interested in things I considered insignificant and uninterested or unable to understand what I was interested in. I don't think it's a matter of why ENTPs do something, rather about the interrelations between an ISTJ and ENTP which imo can be full of misunderstanding due to vastly different ways of viewing things.

    I have ISTJ friends who I value highly but romantically I don't provide the stability they want and they don't give me the flexibility I want. What can help this? Mostly being aware I'd say.

    I'd suggest this is one of the best ways for someone to start to understand what goes on in my head and how I process things.

  5. #5
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Has anyone experienced a relationship with an ISTJ? My mom (ISTJ) is in a relationship with an ENTP and she's looking for some insight into his brain and why the communication is so difficult sometimes? She says whenever she tries to have him express his feelings he will stonewall her...why is this? When it comes to his feelings he can never spell things out. He always leaves it vague. She wants to know why you ENTP's do this.
    You have two different issues going on Woman to Man and and SJ to NTP...

    Woman to man - she is likely to be asking to many questions - ie repossitioning what she is asking for an potentially swamping the responce hence the stonewalling. Prioritise what she is dealing with and deal with them one at a time. Asking emotional questions to a man is usauly going to be a difficult call.

    NT's can be really reserved/not quite understand their emotions - hence explaining them in detail to your mum is probably a tough call.

    I found dealing with SJ's really difficult, they speak a totally different language. They didn't know what they wanted from me, and couldn't understand the concepts I was discussing. A questions of them using concrete language to my abstract.... It' was really hard work and resulted in both sides getting super frustrated. Admittedly the person I delt with who was the worst offender was also none too bright, which meant I was on a hiding to nothing on the best days.

  6. #6

    Default

    I get along great with my ISTJ friend, it is awkward at times because we don't understand each other. She can't understand why I don't put as much effort into things as she does, and I don't understand why she has to be so rigid. But she's great at bringing me down to earth and getting me out of trouble. Our relationship at best is superficial; we can talk about superficial things, get a good laugh but nothing we ever do is memorable, I don't know her very well and she doesn't know me very well despite trying (honestly I will never have one of those soap opera moments where I start sobbing and talking about my "dark" past) -.-
    Men are like parking spaces/the good ones are always taken and the ones left are handicapped or to small.

  7. #7
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w4?
    Posts
    1,238

    Default

    tinkerbell's probably got a point that the female>male transition's also causing issues to a degree on top of such, however, I think the ENTP>ISTJ thing may be covering it a bit as well.

    I can't speak for him personally, but I can speak for myself. I know very well, that I will wall off very fast if someone tries to push in too hard too fast. If yeu don't prod me at all, I will *NEVER* open up, as I have absolutely zero reason to do so. If, however, yeu push me too forcefully, it'll actually cause me to wall up even more than if yeu'd said nothing at all. There's a very delicate balance, that's honestly not in the middle, it's much closer to the 'nothing' side, and this may be a similar case that yeur mother's facing.

    I'd request that yeu explain to her that, if she's inquisitive, to be very careful with wording, and specifically watch reactions. If she notices him STARTING to become brief, or terse in replies, or won't answer something directly or skirts the issue, DO NOT PERSUE IT FURTHER. If he is even remotely similar to me, it will probably just make him feel very uneasy and scared, and will react by refusing to say anything. Nudge it a little bit at a time, keep a small pressure going, but don't push when they're not comfortable with it, they'll just resent yeu for it.

    Personally as well, I've noticed that at certain times, I'll be significantly more open... just certain timeframes and mindsets where I may just be more likely to explain myself in detail, and won't be as restrictive against being nudged. These happen to me virtually always late at night when my mind's not 100% aware, and the emotions may take over a bit better, though I'm not sure if there's any correlation between my doing that and anyone else, it may be better to try to prod around nighttime than during the day.

    The basic idea though, is let him go at his own pace, think of it like someone walking along a very narrow path, they're terrified of falling off it, kinda like a tightrope or something. If yeu don't push them at all, they're not going to move because they're scared to. If yeu push too fast, they're going to cling tightly to it and refuse to move because that's even worse than standing still. Slow and steady will work much better more likely.



    That being said, the 'always is vague' response is typical for most ENTP's that I've seen, seems to be a method of exploration... leave it vague to start, develop a broad, generalized understanding, then set the limitations around it in a boarder to see how far the concept reaches, then worry about the inner workings.

    In an emotional context, and the fact that he's an E, chances are he seriously doesn't understand his own emotions very well. Having someone who can understand them better would help a great deal, but they have to do things not so much with the mindset of 'learning' about him... because he doesn't even know the answers himself likely, since an ENTP learns primarily by explaining themselves through someone else, so they can't really put long hours of solitude style thought into their inner workings; instead if she looks at it as a matter of trying to help him understand himself, and having her understand more in the process, then the 'vague and generalized' descriptions are just the starting point to begin with, if she can help him understand himself from that vague and generalized starting point, then he can move outward to defining the boarders, the extreemes and such, and only after he's comfortable with those, will he be likely to work inwards to understand major concepts of himself and the working as a whole. It's a slow, agonizing process, but well worth it in the end.

    That, at least, is how I know for a fact that I work over time, and from the limited description given, it seems like it may fit his issues with such. Get yeur mom to try that method, and see if it works any better. Or better yet, copy/paste this response and ask him if he thinks it makes sense to him or if he thinks it would work. It may or may not be accurate to him as it is to me, but he'll likely be interested in the concept and read it just out of curiousity, and will likely want to think about whether it actually affects him in that manner, it may or may not, but he'll probably at least try to see if it fits, and even if it doesn't, chances are, with an outline of possibilities, he can be persuaded to go through things one at a time and list whether he thinks each applies or not.

  8. #8
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,532

    Default

    Thank you all for your responses. I'm sure they will be of help to her. I'll give you a example of what sort of annoys her. ENTP gave her a card for her birthday and signed it LOL. My mom was like, "Now is that "laugh out loud" or "lots of love"? ENTP wouldn't say other than, "You know what it stands for" which I understand it as he meant "lots of love" and she did too. But she really wanted the affirmation from him. It kind of ruined it a little. So what should she do in cases like this? I know for her, the affirmation thing is taking a toll on the relationship. I told her I think she should just be blunt about her needs with him. But he may not know how to give her those needs.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  9. #9
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    To your example, that's tough. I would learn to handle ambiguity a little better, and just let it go, which is tough and nerve-wracking for an ISTJ. It would help me to think of it as a test of my "trust" in the other person, and maybe to play down its importance in the overall picture.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    1,458

    Default

    I'm not a man, but I resent it when someone tries to get me to express a feeling on cue. I don't like being insincere about things like that and saying it at a time when I'm not driven to or in a way I wouldn't choose makes me feel insincere, even if I know the other person just needs to hear it.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENTP] ENTP and Relationship Trust Issues
    By Plumgardyn in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-21-2016, 11:51 AM
  2. [ISTJ] ISTJ relationship with ISTP
    By lauranna in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-09-2014, 05:28 PM
  3. [ISTJ] ISTJ-ISTJ Relationship?
    By d@v3 in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 06-26-2010, 01:19 AM
  4. [ENTP] ENTP's - Relationships and Acceptance
    By TheLazyAnarchist in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11-15-2009, 03:49 AM
  5. [ENTP] ENTPs and relationship sabotage?
    By marmandahalf in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 220
    Last Post: 04-17-2009, 01:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO