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Thread: Please help me.

  1. #1
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Default Please help me.

    I need an NT to help me. Please.

    I believe that no person is actually in control of what he does. He thinks he is in control, but in reality he is only witness to the physical workings of his brain. The perception of choice is really the perception of conflicting preferences, with one preference ultimately manifesting temporary dominance. This idea stems from our understanding of strokes, brain tumors, medications/drugs affecting consciousness. This also stems from the nature of control.

    To control, one must have a preference for something, and one must exert some type of force in order to acheive that preference. A rock might cause the death of a person by falling from a ledge onto his head, but we would not say that rock is in control of that person's life. The rock lacks the desire or motivation necessary to be in control. (I'm going to stop you here if you believe the rock was in control, because that belief will not help me with my issues.) Who or what controls preference, that essential part of our understanding of control? If we were to say that we control our preferences, well then we'd need a preference for our preferences. Who controls those? Ultimately it would lead to events prior to our existence, thus removing ultimate control of our lives from our grasp.

    I have studied biology extensively, and have a deep grasp of the very basic nature of biological events. I know, for example, that mitochondria do not magically produce ATP and know how to do so. They are simply structured (chemically speaking) in such a way so that the presence of certain external chemicals will result in reactions leading to that production (I won't go into the entire cycle due to a need for brevity). Biologists even go as far as explaining why certain behaviors manifest themselves in humans, and do so from a purely structural standpoint. Why then, if all our parts are considered matter bound by the laws of nature, are humans not viewed as mere matter moving through space, bound by the laws of nature?

    These beliefs, that we are nothing but matter, have caused in me a general psychosis, for lack of a better classification. I no longer enjoy school, work, social interactions. I have no motivation to live. I cannot enjoy love, I cannot enjoy sex, and I am brought to mild tears while writing this. I do not think that I am wrong, although I do think I am insane (look up the definition of insane).

    What I need from you NTs: Prove me wrong. Show me that we are more. I really want to live again. I don't want to kill myself. Please. I am saying this with utter seriousness. I cannot simply ignore it and live for the moment. There is more, and I really wish I could expain it better, but I am not intelligent enough to do so. I am existentialist to the extreme.

    Edit: I see such ignorance in the world. People are so blind to the truths, and for good reason. Those who are not, do not wish to live.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #2
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    I don't feel like writing a lot so I'll say this. You are not the matter but what runs the matter which is your soul.

  3. #3
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    I don't feel like writing a lot so I'll say this. You are not the matter but what runs the matter which is your soul.
    I do not want a statement, I want proof. You have provided me nothing but evidence of the ignorance of humans. I'm not. however, saying ignorance is not a good thing is this sense.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Alright proof:
    - Your mind is not part of matter
    - Your emotions are not part of matter
    - Your senses are not part of matter
    It's impossible to show someone a 'mind', 'emotion' and 'sense' in solid form.
    So what are they if they are not matter?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bushranger's Avatar
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    If you are looking for the soul then I don't think I can help you, I neither believe in the soul, nor do I think it important. I won't try to play shallow word games to trick you back into ignorance.

    You are less ignorant. Congratulations, you are now a free agent. Emphasis on the word free. Freedom comes with a cost. The cost is simple, you are now responsible for your own motivation. Movement now requires an active choice from you. Unlike a rock, you get to be the primary instigator of your own destiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy
    I no longer enjoy school, work, social interactions. I have no motivation to live. I cannot enjoy love, I cannot enjoy sex, and I am brought to mild tears while writing this. I do not think that I am wrong, although I do think I am insane (look up the definition of insane).
    This sounds like one of the classic symptoms of depression. I would tend to believe it to be mostly biochemical in nature. This is a good thing, machines can be recalibrated. You are one of those remarkable machines that can seek its own recalibration. If you feel that you need help then you should seek it (I know that this thread is an attempt to do just that, but if you have full on depression then we can only do so much)

    The idea that being "just matter" is somehow a limitation, or an indication that we are not "something more" is in essence laughable. You have reasoned yourself to one conclusion, and then, just stopped. Why? Question your assumptions.
    If you want to be more, then be more. You are responsible for your own self actualization.
    I'll get you my pretty, and your little hermit crab too!

  6. #6
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    I believe that no person is actually in control of what he does...

    Ultimately it would lead to events prior to our existence, thus removing ultimate control of our lives from our grasp...

    Why then, if all our parts are considered matter bound by the laws of nature, are humans not viewed as mere matter moving through space, bound by the laws of nature?...

    These beliefs, that we are nothing but matter, have caused in me a general psychosis, for lack of a better classification...

    Show me that we are more. I really want to live again. I don't want to kill myself. Please. I am saying this with utter seriousness...
    Why does a lack of control make you want to kill yourself? Why are you focusing only on the brain, and not your bladder, for instance? Is there something specific about the brain that you wish to control that you will not apply to the lungs?

    I don't think this issue is something an "NT" can solve for you. Maybe it's better to seek psychological or spiritual guidance? I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but I hope that you can understand that we are a sum of all of our parts. And in turn, we are all parts of something bigger. Because we cannot identify what that is doesn't make this existence any less valid.

    I hope you are not serious about that suicide remark, philosophers have been picking at this question for millenia and have still gone on to live fruitful lives.

  7. #7
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    JB

    As a thought.......you are pointing yourself at yourself and not at what is around you...

    If you really want to discover the meanign of life, go volenteer at a school or home for people with learnign difficulties... see how they view the world and then come back and share...

    It would change your view....

  8. #8
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I realize you asked for NTs but...

    Have you ever realized what a beautiful machine the human really is? The intricate details that make it work? The diversity in which it exists, despite the fact that it's made up from similar building blocks every time it gets build? And those same difference, those unique traits shine through in the processes you described. Sure, they're programmed to react a certain way, but no person is quite like the other. It makes us unique, and gives us a personality. Which also means that there's a gigantic amount of diversity in those things that you claim are predestined and out of our control. Even if that were to be true..that we truly have no control, we're still a wonder to behold. Even as you right now are fighting that very conditioning you claim to have recognized. We're a machine that tries to figure itself out and take charge. Something we're programmed for? Perhaps. But isn't that ironic? And slightly paradoxal?

    We humans have yet to build a machine that does that. That has the capacity to not just replicate itself, but allow itself to multiply into great diversity, evolve and eventually question its own existance. I'd say we have not even scratched the surface of the knowledge we'd need for that. I'd wager there's more than what you just lined out to the being we are. For that matter, the entire right half of the brain and it's goal/purpose is still a mystery. We know some of the building blocks used, but the effects they produce, such as self-awareness, emotions, spiritual experiences..

    And lastly...life is a journey to experience to the fullest. Who you are will never come back again. Does it really matter how it is you decide and experience things? Does it really matter why things which have meaning to you are your preference? Isn't it just possible to just learn as much as you can and enjoy the experience, gaining new insight along the way? Coz, from what I can tell, looking at history, I'd say that's what we're meant to do with our time here
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #9
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    well we might be automated atomotons with no control over our fate, but I really think we have freedom of choice, free will, maybe we don't have control over our preferences but we have choice over our ultimate actions. Prove yourself wrong by choosing to live, you seem suicidal.

  10. #10
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I'd start with some analogue of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle: awareness of the existence of cause alters the causal chain, allowing for example, the introduction of countermeasures.

    Also, minute awareness of the existence of cause produces minute focus, a suggestion of inescapablility.

    And further to also, how uncaused does one want to be? Radical freedom is mere randomness.

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