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Thread: Please help me.

  1. #41
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    This thread has been unimaginably helpful. Thank you to those who positively contributed.

  2. #42
    Senior Member rainoneventide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    This thread has been unimaginably helpful. Thank you to those who positively contributed.
    I agree, very enlightening.
    Wondering if we're all deluded organisms floundering around in some cosmic soup is scary. But knowing we're capable of forming and reacting to these thoughts is significant; sentience screws us over depending on whether we allow it to or not.
    "So I say, live and let live. Thatís my motto. Live and let live.
    Anyone who canít go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker."
    - George Carlin

  3. #43
    Member dorcus0's Avatar
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    You're missing the forest for the trees. Sure, the brain is just a bunch of neurons wired together, firing electrical signals to muscles that squeeze and contract. But the brain has a crapload of neurons, and somewhere in there, there is an emergent behavior. Instead of simple reflexive stimulus-reaction, humans do have a consciousness.

    We don't know how exactly we have a consciousness, but we know that it does exist. Your brain is more than the sum of its parts. You can think, reflect, and then act based on your knowledge. You have some control of your life. You, believe it or not, are in control.


    Oh, and may I suggest that you find a therapist and take some happy pills? If you can't afford a therapist, look for the local counselor, or maybe your parent. Maybe even a friend's parent. Just find someone you can speak to face-to-face and trust. If you can't get a prescription for powerful antidepressants, the "dietary supplement" 5-HTP can be bought over-the-counter and is perfectly legal.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Let me get a bit more scientific about this to prove you wrong, and instead of big complex organisms like humans letīs take simple elementary particles as an example, it will be easy to extrapolate this to humans afterwards.

    Arguements against determinism

    Uncertainty principle

    Quantum mechanics

    In short: Before the start of the last century people were mainly concerned with finding physical laws that could determine exactly the nature of the universe. Then one day philosophy said: "if we have all of these laws and the exact condition of the universe at any given point we can determine with 100% accuracy what affects what and we will be able to predict the future".

    Then quantum mechanics came along and kicked this theory in the face by saying, nothing is deterministic, not even if we have these laws and the measuring equipment to accurately determine the state of the universe at one given point. Then Einstein said: "Nooooooooooo, This can't be, god doesn't play dice!!!!!*" (Nooooooooo, This can't be and exclamation marks added for extra effect.)

    So you see, men who were much smarter then any of us on TypeC have kicked each other in the face over your problem long before you were even born. How convenient! Being born on this earth and already being able to know the answer to one of life's greatest dilemma's.

  5. #45
    Senior Member kathara's Avatar
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    You are simply depressed.

    You can either go to a psychiatrist's or ride the wave. After the critical point, which you seem to be at, you will start wanting to get better.

    Like that American beauty character put it: There is so much beauty in the world, it makes me cry. Go see the Sistine Chapel.

  6. #46
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    True, from a physical standpoint, there is no free will. There's no way to prove that wrong.

    But just because that's true looking from a physics perspective doesn't mean there aren't other logically consistent ways of viewing the world.

    I think of it as a hierarchy of frames, with physics at the bottom. Somewhere up the tree is the human interaction frame, in which free will is unequivocally true. Just because that frame reduces to the physics frame somehow doesn't mean it isn't a true way of viewing the world. Determinism is true in physics, free will is true in human interaction. They aren't at odds.

    Your problem is you're conflating the two frames, like the fact that determinism is true in physics means that free will isn't true in human interaction. You're IN the human interaction frame, so remember to use the right premises for that frame.

  7. #47
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I wonder why I didn't see this topic sooner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post

    What I need from you NTs: Prove me wrong. Show me that we are more. I really want to live again. I don't want to kill myself. Please. I am saying this with utter seriousness. I cannot simply ignore it and live for the moment. There is more, and I really wish I could expain it better, but I am not intelligent enough to do so. I am existentialist to the extreme.
    Dude, not that I care much wether you kill yourself or not. But everyone needs to find their own reasons to live. And you are no different.

    What should be enough is knowing we all die at some point and being an existentialist, believe of second chances or after life aren't there. Because of this, we can see life as a game. Go into the world, do some good, get reactions, have fun. Go with the flow. Killing yourself would achieve nothing.

    As far as control is concerned, you are in control of yourself within the limits of your capabilities. You can't control other people to the full extent. But you are still perfectly in control of what you do with everything.

    Life is built on choices. Learn to appreciate the good and the bad things in life. You're in control of your choices.

    School may suck, but not going or failing school probably sucks more. So stick with it, and make the best of it. Don't go about whining about it. You'll not get anything with whining, apart from misplaced empathy by poor sensitive souls. And if you have any decency left in you, you'll probably hate that even more. So get a hold of yourself and make some choices.

    Either way, embrace the ignorance you see in the world. Learn from it. Adjust accordingly. And show how it's done in your opinion. Don't go cry in a corner like a pussy. Both good and bad things are equally important.

    PS: Media is mostly centered around bad things. What you hear and see on TV, is a selective grasp. Good is often seen as common, normal. It does not get much attention. Whereas bad does get attention. So start opening your eyes and see both sides to things.

    So are you in control? Heck yes you are.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  8. #48
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    How can I justify any action when that action is based on something that is unjustifiable, my own desire.
    Nothing is justifiable. Deduction relies on premises. To prove those premises relies on deduction, which relies on other premises. Infinite regress. Induction has the same problem...you have to assume past patterns will continue into the future. But to justify that assumption, you have to assume past patters will continue into the future. Infinite regress again.

    True justification is impossible. Objectivity is impossible. Hoping for either is like hoping to grow wings and fly.

    Anyway, free will is an illusion. So what? Everything is an illusion. You live in illusions. Entailed by that is that your emotions are a function of those illusions. So instead of being annoyed by the fact that there are illusions, try to think of other illusions that maximize your happiness. All humans have the illusion of free will. So just accept it. You have no other choice. Play the game.

    You are a dog humping a leg. You are a monkey. But check it out...why not go on antidepressants? Maybe your mentality right now is just a function of some neurochemical state. Why not plug in some new inputs and see how your mentality changes?

    I got into the exact same state as you a few years ago. Then I played with my chemicals a bit...and while I still believe that all of the conclusions I came to at that time were true, I don't find myself as bothered by the implications of them.

  9. #49
    Junior Member IrishGuy's Avatar
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    As others have said, you seem depressed. As someone who also suffers periods of melancholy I can tell you that logic and rational thought will only make it worse. Logic leads to a rather sterile and critical view of the world. This cynicism of the world can easily turn inward resulting in depression.

    My advice: stop worrying about whether or not you have autonomy and the capacity for independent thought. Civilization has gotten along just fine without solving this particular and most likely unsolvable (beyond all doubt) problem. Put down the biology books, set a goal, and achieve it. The goal could be to take a martial arts class or creating some abstract art or even as simple as building some furniture. Whatever you do, get away from the biology books for awhile. The rational and logical nature of evolutionary mechanisms is driving you crazy; find an outlet to keep your sanity.

    I do not know for certain if this will work for you, but it works for me, so you might want to try it out.
    "God is good but never dance in a small boat." -Anon.

  10. #50
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    What I need from you NTs: Prove me wrong. Show me that we are more. I really want to live again. I don't want to kill myself. Please. I am saying this with utter seriousness. I cannot simply ignore it and live for the moment. There is more, and I really wish I could expain it better, but I am not intelligent enough to do so. I am existentialist to the extreme.
    I don't believe I can prove you wrong, but perhaps you can answer something for me. If you put two different people in the exact same situation, then they will sometimes choose differently from each other. How can this be if there is no free will?
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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