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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    This could just be an NTJ (Te-Ni/Ni-Te) thing in general.

    I have found myself either idealizing or criticizing potential mates very frequently, and what you mentioned about holding them to the same standards that you hold yourself to resonates with me as well.
    I suspected this was the case.

    I recognize that, to a certain extent, this problem will be endemic within the NTJ types. However, I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the amount of anguish NTJ's experience as a result of this behavior. I have found that coming to the conclusion that "I often don't live up to my own standards, why should I expect others to do so" helps significantly in introducing some perspective to the situation.

    Exploring and developing Fi also definitely helps to minimize the amount to which ENTJ's define their world in solely black and white terms.

    The key I think is to realize that there is a difference between our work lives and our personal lives.

    The more one understands that these two spheres are (and should remain) separate, the better off they will be. The problem arises when NTJ's begin to define their entire lives by the standards they hold for themselves at work. While feelings and emotions usually have less importance in the business world (the world in which we are comfortable and dominate), the personal world of human relations and interaction we find in society and at home is dominated and driven by feelings arising from personal interaction.

    Unfortunately, without Fe it is hard to make the leap from "I have feelings" to "other people have feelings and I should probably take those into account". However, with Fi, one can begin with an understanding of individual personal feelings, and through effort, apply that cognitive analysis to others.

    I know how important this issue is to helping become a more balanced and agreeable person (as an NTJ). More importantly, loneliness is the deepest scar I (and I suspect many NTJ's) carry, so I'll do my best to find a solution and get back to you guys with it.

  2. #12
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    I've learned to not hold potential mates to the same standard as myself. In fact what has worked best for me are people who have very different strengths than my own. There is alot to be said for balance.

  3. #13
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    My boyfriend is an ENTJ.
    It has been challenging for both of us, but i have "taught" him to be sweeter and more caring and he has "taught" me not to take everything personally and not to be always so serious. We get along very well. He is the REAL man, to me. I dont' trust and admire anyone more than him.
    I think you ENTJs need to meet a mature NF to be sort of pulled out of your "shell" (you tend to hide the best part of your personality and keep at a big distance). But when you do open up, it is sooo wonderfull! I know you don't want to be told what to do and how to do it (you really DON'T need it)...So take this as an advice from a "big fan": try not to judge people on your feet and they will amaze you! Give them more than just one chance!

    Anyway i strongly recommend the ENTJ (man) - INFJ (woman) match! ^_^


    P.S.: I apologize for my bad english!

  4. #14
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. ENTJs hardly recognize their faults (we NTPs always do ours), and I think that's the best first step. Though I think that being the archetype of what's needed in the academic and working world, they contemplate their flaws much much later because they usually have things going for them early. Then the idea of relationship kicks in--long term relationships.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasi View Post
    My boyfriend is an ENTJ.
    It has been challenging for both of us, but i have "taught" him to be sweeter and more caring and he has "taught" me not to take everything personally and not to be always so serious. We get along very well. He is the REAL man, to me. I dont' trust and admire anyone more than him.
    I think you ENTJs need to meet a mature NF to be sort of pulled out of your "shell" (you tend to hide the best part of your personality and keep at a big distance). But when you do open up, it is sooo wonderfull! I know you don't want to be told what to do and how to do it (you really DON'T need it)...So take this as an advice from a "big fan": try not to judge people on your feet and they will amaze you! Give them more than just one chance!

    Anyway i strongly recommend the ENTJ (man) - INFJ (woman) match! ^_^


    P.S.: I apologize for my bad english!
    Its always awesome to hear from someone who has a positive opinion of ENTJ's!

    I agree with you on the NF partner thing. Every girl I've ever been seriously into has been a NFJ. Its just something about you guys that drives me nuts!

  6. #16
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    My husband was an ENTJ - it might be easier to say what wasn't great than to delineate what was good: It'd be a much shorter list. We had 25 years together, married for nearly 22 of them.

  7. #17
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I'm a big fan of ENTJs. However, I have noticed a dynamic between me and other TJs. I am attracted to them for their high standards, incredible drive, capability at anything they care to become good at, ability to be great hosts, gregarious nature, thought patterns and so on.

    However, they aren't good at showing vulnerability or needing anyone. Their agenda usually has much more to do with them (and how the other person can be a nice accessory to it) rather than "us" (planning it together with equal consideration and importance for both people). I feel flattered when I do live up to their standards because they are not easily impressed, but have felt the downside of being idealized when real life hits. I find myself becoming clingier than I'd like (which annoys them) in an effort to know where I am at with them (yes I more than an "I'll let you know if anything changes" kind of expression of love), even though I am an independent, capable person by nature. I like their effciency and decisiveness, but need for someone to be willing to discuss something and actually consider things from more than their own point of view. Someone who values me as a person in my own right, rather than an addition to their lives when they need companionship. I wonder if some of these considerations are things that can change, or if they are just the flip sides to the wonderful qualities tha ENTJs possess. In my experience, trying to bring up these issues results in complaints of oversensitivity or nitpicking and I hate to make a person feel that way. At the same time I have enough to offer that I think whoever I'm with needs to be looking for that. If the INFJ is willing to toughen up and the ENTJ is willing to compromise and be more open, I think it could maybe work.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    This could just be an NTJ (Te-Ni/Ni-Te) thing in general.
    I have found myself either idealizing or criticizing potential mates very frequently, and what you mentioned about holding them to the same standards that you hold yourself to resonates with me as well.
    Y E S.
    100%

    Now that we've found the problem, could we just skip to the "found the answer!"-part?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'm interested to hear the views of other ENTJ's (and everyone else for that matter) on this.

    As an ENTJ, my personal strengths have led to continued success in academia and the professional world. Despite my substantial interest in financial and professional success, I have had one complaint that has obstructed my ability to enjoy my successes. This being the difficulty I have with forming deep and long lasting romantic relationships.

    I, at 23 years of age, have had only two real relationships, neither of which continued past 2 months.

    The first was on and off for 2 years (more off than on), and involved my HS sweetheart. I was too young to see she wasn't right for me, but luckily she knew I wasn't right for her.

    The second occurred over the summer before my senior year of college and I basically lived at this girls place, but was never into her enough to put a label on it.

    I realize that much of my inability in the realm of love, is indicative of my (past) status as a social neophyte. However, I have been working on this (harder than many of my posts here would indicate).

    However, social awkwardness cannot fully explain (or even mostly explain) my hangups with women.

    I believe that the reason I have so much trouble with the opposite sex (and social situations in general) is that I hold, potential romantic partners, (or other social acquaintances for that matter) up to the same standards I hold myself. Thus, it becomes a situation where I either, 1) fall head over heals for the person and want to spend the rest of my life with them instantaneously because they live up to my (admittedly) ridiculous standards, or 2) I only want to have sex with them because I am physically attracted to them but some other issue prevents me from opening up myself to emotional attachment. While this issue is often justified, i.e. she makes me want to jam a #2 pencil into my temple every time she opens her mouth, I feel that I too often nip potential relationships in the bud before I give the other person time to get to know me, or time for me to really get to know them.

    In the first of the two instances presented above, my snap judgment and pursuit don't really stand as a social detriment, except for the fact that I've only encountered one girl in my experience on this planet that stirred my soul in such a way as to make me want to commit to her unconditionally, and that in that situation, my undying and immediate affection combined with her having a long term BF I didn't find out about until 3 weeks after I met her led to me scaring her off or pushing her away.

    In the latter of the two instances, it often happens that I end the sexual contact the instant I realize that they don't fit into my ideal view of what a SO should be, or I just continue sexual contact in the knowledge that I will never pursue anything more. This second option comes to pass mostly when I immediately know that the girl is crazy and doesn't warrant emotional attachment. The first however, has been occurring more and more often as I have aged.

    I have noticed a similar dynamic in the way I formulate friendships. Either they fit into what I think they should be and I become best friends with them, or they don't fit and are either regulated to acquaintance status or are discarded all together.

    Basically my main issue is this, how can I best reconcile my desire for a relationship with my inability to accept anyone who doesn't fit into what purpose they should play in my life without compromising my rigid, and often life saving system of ideals?

    I know its vain to look at others solely based on what they can do for you, and I hate that I do it, but so far I haven't had too much luck with, or incentive to change my ways.

    Any thoughts or perspectives would be welcome! Thanks for listening.


    New title for this one: Humans: Lucky in success, Unlucky in love.



    Oh, I can relate to your women problems, damn introverted feeling, getting you down? Don't bother, just use women, treat them like obj...wait, sorry about that, that's not right. Being an Intuitive introverted feeler for lack of a shorter term, you are probably going to have these sort of issues. You are very idealistic in relationships, so you really have two choices, although in reality, only one to be happy in my opinion.

    Choice 1

    Accept yourself for who you are, be yourself, but a considerate yourself, and enjoy when women use you.

    Choice 2

    Loosen up and start not caring, forget about the emotion that surfaces, and play the brute force dating game.


    Since ENTJs are notoriously 'quick' witted, I will give you 5 chances to pick out which is the happy response and which is the sad one.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    Interesting thread. ENTJs hardly recognize their faults (we NTPs always do ours), and I think that's the best first step. Though I think that being the archetype of what's needed in the academic and working world, they contemplate their flaws much much later because they usually have things going for them early. Then the idea of relationship kicks in--long term relationships.
    I used to not recognize mine.

    Now I always assume that something going wrong was my fault until shown otherwise. I can only truly control my conduct, so I might as well focus on changing the one thing I have control over.

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