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  1. #51
    Dali
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Condenscending, outspokenly, is not native to the type ENTP any more that it is to any other type in the NT temperament.

    Generally, the more intelligent a person is. The less that person feels the need to be condenscending. Condenscending is, at least I always thought, a defensive mechanism of ones incapable intelligence. The need to prove oneself on an area, because they know they lack on so many others, compared to other people. As compensation.
    Ah, I thought you'd say that (but I had to ask. Developing the Ti, see).

    In my experience, I've met plenty of superbly-intelligent NTs that are condescending like nobody's business and I've met plenty of the same that are as humble as can be.

    That said, I've found that, regardless of intellectual ability, most ENTPs do have the condescension thing going. This is what the thread is about and, as you can see, we're getting confessions from the horses' mouth.

  2. #52
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Here's some Ti-ing then.

    Maybe because NTP is rather alien from society, the extravertedness is trying to compensate for difference by putting down their territory? Since there isn't much of a place for NTP in common society. And such a place has to be made, if one does not wish to adjust. Which NTP's do not, because we are who we are for a reason, and not because we have no choice.

    In other words, condenscending (unjustly) is still a means for compensation.

    I don't really relate to it myself. I am rarily condenscending, sarcasm aside. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #53
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    All of the ENTPs I know IRL have this permanent condescending tone to their voice. It's like their default mode.
    Are you sure your Fi is not being overly sensitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah, lol, even IME. They seem to be always "explaning something" to people. I'm not sensitive about my intelligence and knowledge, so I don't care, but I know that more sensitive people are really annoyed, since it seems like they're conveying "how do you not know this? Are you stupid?".
    Explaining something does not equal 'how do you not know this? Are you stupid?'. That's how ENTPs engage with the world, we need the bouncing off of others to figure out the kinks of our ideas. So, when I explain something, it is just as much (if not more) for myself than for the other person. For me, explaining something serves as a way to validate whether I've truly understood the concept, and a way to do that is, creating transparency in my knowledge (how many ways, times, can I conjure up X knowledge so that people of varying modes of processing/levels of understanding can get it, how many languages can I speak [of] X knowledge). Having chances to let the knowledge out, so it's always fresh in my mind. Brain exercise, practice keeps memory alive. The more I call on a knowledge, the more imbedded it will be for me, the more chances I find a way to associate it, the deeper I understand its applicability, relevance. Knowledge mobilization, if you will. Secondly, we are mighty curious, so sometimes we trip over ourselves to satiate that curiosity if we read that the other 'might not know'. It's a good intention. A lot of other people (types) are sensitive to information acquisition because they start off with the position of feigned confidence, "I KNOW!" so anything that challenges that is more important than the knowledge itself. I start off with, "I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW!" so when someone explains, if it's something that they keep repeating, or if other interactions with me should give obvious evidence that I know that X knowledge, because otherwise I couldn't have said/conceived Y, then, yes, I get irritated. This latter may be a limitation of mine, as I inadvertently ask of the other to make 'the connection' that to get Y one has to know X. And not everyone may get that.

    Otherwise, I like and welcome being taught. Most people take it to mean that they're being schooled rather than taught. I see this as knowledge resistance, which is a very sad thing for an ENTP. Our delivery when we're intent on a knowledge, at least mine's, is very focused, I don't have time, nor do I think about how to 'gloss' the words when I'm in the 'zone'....which may translate to bluntness or aggressiveness. I get told, in discussions, "I don't mean to upset you, I'm just saying a point of view..." or other cushion fillers. And, I'm always surprised that they read my forceful focus as getting irritated by them. Cuz I keep questioning or asking why something is the way it is. Again, not the same as condescending.

  4. #54
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Condenscending, outspokenly, is not native to the type ENTP any more that it is to any other type in the NT temperament.

    Generally, the more intelligent a person is. The less that person feels the need to be condenscending. Condenscending is, at least I always thought, a defensive mechanism of ones incapable intelligence. The need to prove oneself on an area, because they know they lack on so many others, compared to other people. As compensation.
    "Yeah so it's utterly absurd to call an entp condescending ":rolli:

    *takes a self satisfied smug pose*
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #55
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    "Yeah so it's utterly absurd to call an entp condescending ":rolli:

    *takes a self satisfied smug pose*
    Lol yeah, damn, I didn't even see that.

    To find someone condenscending, is to be condenscending to those that are condenscending.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #56
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    To find someone condenscending, is to be condenscending to those that are condenscending.
    ouh nice one, I like how you worded that.

    'd make a nice signature (and would just confuse people further whenever I act like an asshole)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #57
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo View Post
    most ENTPs do have the condescension thing going. This is what the thread is about and, as you can see, we're getting confessions from the horses mouth.
    Alot of entps have a very good understanding of social dynamics, and in general what can be seen as condescension is in fact a 'fun powerplay' rather than a belief the entp has as Ne+Ti is inherently multi leveled and highly relativistic.
    On purely intellectual grounds I don't believe a non dumb entp could be anything but humble and deeply agreeing with Socrates' "I know that I know nothing".

    I'd even say that most entps came up with relativism kantian moral relativism and something similar to positivism during their childhood before they ever heard of philosophy past vaguely hearing about the names of the guys once or twice.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #58
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    ouh nice one, I like how you worded that.

    'd make a nice signature (and would just confuse people further whenever I act like an asshole)
    Hah, I feel honored.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #59
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Relevance is not limited by your own myopia, but you knew that already, didn't you?

    Or just defending a position. You know, people do that. It's a good way to sharpen your discussion and debate skills, but you knew that already, didn't you?

    Or it could just be a mutual misunderstanding on how ideas form. Ideas do just randomly appear in an ENTP's head; that's the nature of Ne. But you knew that already, didn't you?

    Of course, logic is variable based on a whole galaxy of factors, and when one remains so myopic to not see the freight train that will come from behind as the effect of one conclusion, you'll be on point - the point of a locomotive. But you knew that already, didn't you?

    They are subjected to your own biases, but you knew that already, didn't you?

    Or, there is validity to keeping options open, since constancy leads to stagnation. Having others critique one's analysis leads to greater precision than would be available to a single person, due to varying perspectives and experiences. But you knew that already, didn't you?

    Or they could be challenging you to defend your position, and retreating into petty sniping about perceived personal slights or obstinate refusal to consider varying viewpoints constitutes a clear failure of defense. But you knew that already, didn't you?

    No, all it does is prove that the logic is sound. It's still got to empirically work before it's proven. Phlogiston was logically sound given the knowledge of that era - still doesn't mean oxygen didn't exist then. But you knew that already, didn't you?

    And... your point? One anecdote doesn't prove an assertion, but a whole collection of anecdotes is called a trend, which is usually a damn good sign of something being there. But you knew that already, didn't you?

    Categorically untrue. The ones who look bad are the ones who can't help but be assholes in their assertions, even if they are true. How many times have you come off looking like the jerk while everyone else is defending someone acting in an irrational way? You definitely knew this already.

    The perspective that you're not right in this circumstance? Observations aren't always personal attacks... do I even have to continue?

    You don't know that. Prove it. It's likely they've just gotten bored with your incessant droning about an ultimately insignificant point. Continue the litany...

    And it's no surprise that most people on here think your style of argumentation is completely insufferable. Projection much?
    This is absolutely brilliant, you've managed to respond to my entire post and yet managed to prove nothing besides your immaculate knack for straying from the point! Great job.
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  10. #60
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    This is absolutely brilliant, you've managed to respond to my entire post and yet managed to prove nothing besides your immaculate knack for straying from the point! Great job.
    it was actually precisely his point, if you didn't get it well, I guess I can't help you.
    absolutist much ? Well, I'm going to have to break that news to you kiddo, you aren't the universe.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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