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  1. #31
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I don't find ENTPs condescending so much as I find them irresponsible in performing their duties, and irrational when their opinions clash with my own. They quickly resort to bitter, almost passive-aggressive nit picking and stubborn refusal to accept my reasoning. Apart from that, the few ENTPs that I know are usually very interesting to be with, and I find that they add a complementary sense of adventure to the situation. I am rarely ever bored when I am spending time with them, even when we're just sitting in a room with nothing to do. They can be condescending, but it is usually insincere and they rarely intend to seriously insult you.
    Psst yeur J is showing =3

    "I find them irresponsible in performing their duties, and irrational when their opinions clash with my own."

    This's because the ENTP generally views things from many perspectives at once, then narrows them down systematically. It's not a matter of stubborn refusal, as it is that yeu are stubbornly refusing to accept that ANY perspective OTHER than yeur own is possible, as yeu've already done a good job of showing in the few posts yeu've made so far.

    Those who can see things from many points of view will invariably notice that yeur lack of capacity to think beyond yeur own already decided upon answer, will be trying to show yeu alternative ways of looking at things. Yeu, however, are insistant that the first answer yeu came to is already correct, and anything else must be wrong by default. All evidence presented is ignored, or twisted to ensure that it further supports yeur position.

    That being said, look at yeur arguments with ENTP's as such:

    Yeu have internally decided upon something without considering external information, nor considering even discussing it with anyone; yeu do so logically with the NT, but are so bound to it by yeur excessive J that yeu are incapable of going beyond that decision yeu've reasoned out.

    The ENTP's, on the other hand, will be bouncing their ideas off of yeu, and one of the major things they do, is try to understand all the possible perspectives, and compare the alternative options, and specifically whot's wrong and flawed with the point yeu have. To understand yeur concept, they will chip away at it endlessly and pry it apart; if yeu can hold it up with logic, and proof, they'll believe yeu. If yeu refuse new information or don't take to their nitpicking/prying all that well, they'll consider yeu a closed minded bigot who refuses to see the truth.

    Yeur best way to deal with us, is to be open to explaining yeurself, and especially explaining yeur line of reasoning. If there's a supposed flaw provided, provide evidence to support why it's either not a flaw, or why it doesn't matter. If yeu refuse to do that though, yeu'll generally just make yeurself look really bad, and a strong debating ENTP will parade yeu around showcasing yeu to the world as little more than a dancing monkey.

    Of course, with yeur pride and inability to see it from anyone else's perspective, yeu probably won't even realize yeu're being tossed around verbally like a frissbee. Because yeu will assume that because yeu are right, and have provided yeur 'obvious' explaination, that 'obviously' everyone must recognize how right yeu are. When chances are, it's anything but the case.

    Be wary the debating style of ENTP's, because INTJ's are virtually defenseless against such unless they're conciously aware of the dispairity of debating style. And worst yet, yeu probably won't know when they've considered yeu beaten and are just toying with yeu after that point. So be very, very cautious and think yeur arguments out well, and don't underestimate an ENTP in verbal battle ^.~

  2. #32
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    They quickly resort to bitter, almost passive-aggressive nit picking and stubborn refusal to accept my reasoning.
    sure you aren't confusing another type for entp?
    disclaimer: I will use type clichs because it's 7 am and i'm tired and find it vaguely amuzing

    I mean, bitter, ? I don't think that's even in my emotional range and haven't really noticed it in other entps either.

    NIT PICKING ??? SERIOUSLY ?

    I'll give you my hum very general view on intj reasoning: The range is usually small and it doesn't include enough elements, hence it's full of huge logical deadzones. Only works for well defined mathematical problems or in fields were quoting sources of authority can be considered as a remotly correct way to construct a logical argumentation.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #33
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetrannies View Post
    Too lazy to use our brains!? How about your advice is irrelevant and an unwarranted assumption? No offense, but I don't give a shit about the obvious, obnoxious drivel that always spews outta your damn mouths. Here how about shut the fuck up, once in awhile.
    *shakes head*
    "See, you wouldn't say that if your lonely brain cell had some company. " <- yes that was for the thread, you can drop the knife.

    Have a cookie dear as there's just no denying such obvious facts. I'll help people if they just lack knowledge in a field as it's absolutly alright and I'm the first to admit it when I don't know something and'll be glad to learn something new, but i'd like to assume that I'm surrounded by capable human beings.
    The only other solution would be to aknowledge these people as stupid, and I really prefer to assume they're lazy in order to keep some faith in humanity and everything.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #34
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Thank you, EcK. You are a lot kinder than me.

  5. #35
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I don't find ENTPs condescending so much as I find them irresponsible in performing their duties, and irrational when their opinions clash with my own. They quickly resort to bitter, almost passive-aggressive nit picking and stubborn refusal to accept my reasoning.
    Yeah... that's the "you don't know that" game. It's usually when you're talking out of your ass that I start playing that. Irresponsible in our duties? Since when was "duty" so sacrosanct as to be unquestioningly followed? If it's seemingly unnecessary but you want it done so damn much, why don't you do it yourself, or explain why it's necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetrannies View Post
    Too lazy to use our brains!? How about your advice is irrelevant and an unwarranted assumption? No offense, but I don't give a shit about the obvious, obnoxious drivel that always spews outta your damn mouths. Here how about shut the fuck up, once in awhile.
    Whoa, slow your roll there, buddy. If you're coming to us for emotional support - look elsewhere, because you should have figured out by now that this isn't our strong suit. When dealing with pure information, an ENTP's emotional affect is very limited - usually limited to either elation (over discovery of new connections) or agitation (over being frustrated by something). Even these reactions are relatively rare; the most common situation is no emotion whatsoever.

    So why not just use Google and quit wasting our time? We do have a tendency to get off track very easily, you know.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Koocoomoo's Avatar
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    Default HELL YEAH

    I've ALWAYS complained about ENTPs being... less than sensitive.

    Painfully Bipolar

  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Me, condescending ? No way
    Me, forgetting someone in the woods I dont like ? Way

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Two issues:

    1. Information is information to us, nothing more or less, so we lose sight of the social connotations when we're dealing with plain info. This usually serves us well, but it's what can come across as condescending (since we're implying that we know more than the other person, when we're really just sharing what we know neutrally).

    2. I get in trouble a lot when I slow down and parse my words carefully, seeming as if I'm talking down to the other person, when I'm really just trying to say exactly what I mean and make sure the other person understands completely (as it's hard to translate what goes on in my brain to English sometimes)
    My friend seems to be constantly aware of social connotations, but that second point makes a whole lot of sense to me.

    Actually, he's said that he thinks in words, but I think it's just that he has to slow down and sort it all out in a more simplistic, understandable fashion.

    Alot of stuff that was said in this thread sounds so familiar. He's also said before that he used to get a pretty big ego because teachers and his mom told him early on that he was extremely smart for his age.

    There are just all kinds of habits that he has that come off as condescending and make me think he still has somewhat of an ego.

    Anyways, I think Jeffster said it best. :yim_rolling_on_the_
    -stellar renegade
    coo-oo-ooool this madness down,
    stop it right on tiiiiime!


    Badass Promoter ESTPs:
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Psst yeur J is showing =3

    "I find them irresponsible in performing their duties, and irrational when their opinions clash with my own."

    This's because the ENTP generally views things from many perspectives at once, then narrows them down systematically. It's not a matter of stubborn refusal, as it is that yeu are stubbornly refusing to accept that ANY perspective OTHER than yeur own is possible, as yeu've already done a good job of showing in the few posts yeu've made so far.
    So because somebody looks from many perspectives at once, it is impossible to keep a clear view on the goal? What exactly are you getting at? What so called "perspective" am I failing to consider? Simply because I dismiss erroneous claims that have nothing to do with the topic does not make me ignorant of somebody else's opinion.

    You are proving my point right now, by your invective commentary and irrational clinging to your volatile opinions.

    Those who can see things from many points of view will invariably notice that yeur lack of capacity to think beyond yeur own already decided upon answer, will be trying to show yeu alternative ways of looking at things.
    I've seen you make this bizarre claim several time now, and I am still unsure as to its intended purpose. What is my "already decided" answer? You make it seem as if views spontaneously appear in my mind without any prior research and observation. Does this make any sense whatsoever? Are you serious when you type this drivel?

    Looking at something from many perspectives is completely useless when one doesn't know how to draw logical conclusions. No wonder ENTPs like you become so indecisive and make blunders that you later take back (which you yourself have claimed), you are incapable of staying objective and on point!

    Yeu, however, are insistant that the first answer yeu came to is already correct, and anything else must be wrong by default. All evidence presented is ignored, or twisted to ensure that it further supports yeur position.

    That being said, look at yeur arguments with ENTP's as such:

    Yeu have internally decided upon something without considering external information, nor considering even discussing it with anyone; yeu do so logically with the NT, but are so bound to it by yeur excessive J that yeu are incapable of going beyond that decision yeu've reasoned out.
    Again, my decisions must be magically implanted into my head.

    The ENTP's, on the other hand, will be bouncing their ideas off of yeu, and one of the major things they do, is try to understand all the possible perspectives, and compare the alternative options, and specifically whot's wrong and flawed with the point yeu have.
    So this is why ENTPs are frequently flighty and incoherent! You mindlessly strive for different options without any set goal in mind, failing to look at your own analysis properly.

    Thank you for clarifying that.

    To understand yeur concept, they will chip away at it endlessly and pry it apart; if yeu can hold it up with logic, and proof, they'll believe yeu. If yeu refuse new information or don't take to their nitpicking/prying all that well, they'll consider yeu a closed minded bigot who refuses to see the truth.
    No, ENTPs don't just "believe" you when you present them logic and proof, they become passive aggressive and begin accusing you of refusing to listen to them. Typical Ad hominem attacks, which you yourself seem to be very familiar with.

    Yeur best way to deal with us, is to be open to explaining yeurself, and especially explaining yeur line of reasoning.
    Eh, doesn't this apply to everyone? Clear and logical reasoning is fundamental to proving your assertions.

    If there's a supposed flaw provided, provide evidence to support why it's either not a flaw, or why it doesn't matter.
    It's funny that you would mention providing evidence, since I've seen many ENTPs accept and present anecdotal evidence without second thought.

    If yeu refuse to do that though, yeu'll generally just make yeurself look really bad, and a strong debating ENTP will parade yeu around showcasing yeu to the world as little more than a dancing monkey.
    If one doesn't have a clear and rational point, they will invariably "look bad," regardless of who is "parading you around as little more than a dancing monkey."

    Of course, with yeur pride and inability to see it from anyone else's perspective, yeu probably won't even realize yeu're being tossed around verbally like a frissbee. Because yeu will assume that because yeu are right, and have provided yeur 'obvious' explaination, that 'obviously' everyone must recognize how right yeu are. When chances are, it's anything but the case.
    This is an outright personal attack, and I have no idea where to go from here. It is entirely besides the point, and if you feel like delving into a dull and tasteless battle of pointing out each others' speculated character flaws, I would rather just avoid it.

    I ask you once more, what perspective am I unable to consider?

    Be wary the debating style of ENTP's, because INTJ's are virtually defenseless against such unless they're conciously aware of the dispairity of debating style. And worst yet, yeu probably won't know when they've considered yeu beaten and are just toying with yeu after that point. So be very, very cautious and think yeur arguments out well, and don't underestimate an ENTP in verbal battle ^.~
    INTJs are far from defenseless against the "debating style" of ENTPs, who make a rapid series of non-related deductions in an effort to "blitzkrieg" somebody out of the debate, which after the eventual realization that all of the ENTP's points are irrelevant, slowly turns in favor of the INTJ. ENTPs hold almost no water in longer debates.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I'll give you my hum very general view on intj reasoning: The range is usually small and it doesn't include enough elements, hence it's full of huge logical deadzones. Only works for well defined mathematical problems or in fields were quoting sources of authority can be considered as a remotly correct way to construct a logical argumentation.
    Ad hominem, bare assertion, and a straw man!

    Well, it is no surprise that ENTPs are the weakest of the four rational types. Look at you lot...

  10. #40
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    All of the ENTPs I know IRL have this permanent condescending tone to their voice. It's like their default mode.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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