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  1. #111
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Give P types licence and they all veer into all sorts of directions.

    OP issues
    I exaggerate for effect - making a point etc... usualy based on fact but bigger. I can be forgetful and not realising I'm being inncaurate (I don't call this lieing). I'm not a particualrly dishonest, I'm pretty open and pretty straight really. I do big lies - ususally to people in authority about every 12 years or so - I always get found out, but I've learned that if that is the frequency I do it, then dont' sweat - other people are much worse.

    I dont' lie in normal life because I'm really obviously not telling the truth. I find the concept of telling lies in day to day life bizzar - how can anyone not get tripped up.

    My N spots a lie a mile away.

    There is always lieing to yourself, but that requires you to be aware you are doing it.... Which I think is difficult to report on. Over estimating your abilities and the likes.

    I tend not to lie deliberately I find truth easier to deal with, more efficient and straight forward

    I'm more likely to get kicked for being bluntly truthful

  2. #112
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    I think the point to make is that entps might not believe in the concept of observable reality/truth (and even less Truth) to begin with.
    I tend to use multiple views of situations at different levels as one might use tools, so I can see how that trait could turn into a tendency to lie.

    In general, when people argue about how entps stretch facts when they argue i view this perspective as a sign of the main difference between entps and most other type: the fact that for us switching perspective is not only effortless but natural, and that most people see it as an effort and therefor transfer that feeling onto us, assuming we 'expand energy to achieve some endgoal' when it's simply how we function.

    entps are probably the closest type to the 'natural positivist', we naturally assume that one theory can replace and be as good to describe something as another internally and externally coherent theory.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #113
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Gah! I knew there was something I was missing in my posts earlier I was trying to think of...

    Fact stretching and exaggerations during debates.

    Thanks eck and tinkerbell for the reminder.

    By now I'm sure people have noticed when I argue, my 'examples' are often blown way out of proportion and grossly exaggerated. This isn't something that I'm doing to try to lie, nor does it mean I'm expending energy to do so.

    I do so simply because a 'normal' example rarely fully shows the conceptualized thinking pattern, I automatically break things down into the line of reasoning, and then think of a better way to explain that same line of reasoning amplified to gross proportions to be obvious and easy to see. "That's not the same thing!" doesn't matter if yeu got to the same location by the same form of reasoning. Circumstances mean nothing, if someone was driving drunk... and got caught... they should be punished for the act. If someone was driving drunk and KILLED someone, they should still be punished the same severity for the same act; the circumstances should not matter, the fact that it was reckless endangerment of life is whot matters, whether life was actually lost or not is not the question at hand, but whether it was placed in a position where it could've been lost.

    Of course, then our prisons we be overflowing. The point though, is that the intent, and the action and the reasoning is whot's important, not the circumstances. I find it stupid that if someone trips and accidentally kills someone by trying to grab onto the first thing in reach, and they knock someone over, breaking their hip, and that person dies... that they can be punished with manslaughter... for tripping and having reflexes. Whereas someone can actively try to harm someone, but because they failed, they could be sentenced to less, merely because of circumstances.

    Or my favorite example...

    Yeu are at a fancy dinner, and pick up the wrong fork since yeu had 3 of them to choose from. Yeu look silly.

    Different circumstance, yeu're being held hostage at that fancy dinner, and someone who's insane demands that yeu pick the right fork; yeu choose the wrong one, and someone is killed for yeur incorrect decision.

    The same reasoning, the same action, the same issues... but circumstances changed the end result.

    The point is, even though the latter example was blown WAY out of proportion... the same situation occured. There was no difference on the individual's level. It was far easier to see the absurdity of blaming them for their ignorance, and pressuring them with a punishment if they made error or asked a question, which enforced that they remained ignorant. They were not allowed to ask for the answer or admit they didn't know, and were punished for it. The point remains valid, even though it's obviously blown waaaaaaaay out of proportion and just looks silly.

    But being able to change the circumstances to the level of absurdity, is whot shows yeu the truth behind things. If the SAME line of reasoning is absurd, with a change of perspective, then it probably is flawed.

  4. #114
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Everybody lies. Show me someone who claims to never lie and I will show your a liar.

    I'm sucked back into wasting time here again. What do I have to do to get banned?

  5. #115
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    Everybody lies. Show me someone who claims to never lie and I will show your a liar.

    I'm sucked back into wasting time here again. What do I have to do to get banned?
    I never lie. I omit key details, I imply certain likely scenarios which may not be true, I use sarcasm frequently and so on... but I never directly say something that is false. There's far too many other tools which work FAR better, and don't have the same risks associated with them.


    My favorite example of this:

    A vase is broken in the house, yeu're asked if yeu broke it. Yeu reply by stating that yeu were gone most of the afternoon so it would've been difficult for yeu to've broken it, however, yeu think yeur sister was in the house at some point during the day so maybe they know something about it, so yeu say they should ask her.

    This excludes the fact that yeu were home for 5 minutes in the afternoon when yeu broke the vase, it excludes that yeu know yeur sister was at the store when it happened, and it implies a likely scenario that yeu know isn't true, however yeu never once said anything that was false, and if yeu get caught and called on it, yeu can fall back to stating that every word yeu said was true, and it was their fault for jumping to conclusions. Yeu never SAID that yeur sister did it, yeu just IMPLIED she did. Yeu never SAID yeu didn't break it, yeu just said it would've been difficult (and it was difficult, but yeu did do it). Every single thing was factual, yeu didn't lie.

    This is my key method of 'lying'. By using the truth. It works so much better than just making something up. And I never have to actually state a falsehood.

    As lying requires stating something yeu know to be not true as fact, I never lie. And am not a liar. So there.

  6. #116
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    ^Liar.

  7. #117
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    ^Liar.
    *Bonks Jaggy on the head* Learn the definition of liar before stating so.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    What do I have to do to get banned?
    Try resembling a human being.

  9. #119
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Kat - lies of omission are still lies.... LOL (psssst - you'll still rot in hell for all eternity for not telling the truth

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