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[INTJ] Learning to be Angry

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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I'm a little stumped about how to ask this... but I will try by first explaining and then see if anyone has some thoughts.

I'm not exactly sure what is going on with me... nor am I entirely sure if its a good thing or a bad thing. For much of my life, I've been unemotional, especially when it comes to ANGER. I saw abusive relationships growing up, and so I held a tight control on my own anger, and flew away from disagreements and anger from others.

Over the last 3 years since I began taking Kung Fu, I've slowly come to grips with my fear of anger from others, and anger directed at me. I don't have the panic attacks any more that I used to have when people were shouting or arguing. I thought this was great progress.

Lately, say in the last 4-5 months, I've been quicker and quicker to feel and express my OWN anger at others. This is entirely new. The first time was a few months ago when a co-worker and close friend of mine made me angry. In that moment, when I felt angry, I felt it take control of me and I stormed into her office, slammed her door, yelled at her and remained angry for a few hours afterwards because I knew that she was being unfair to me. I felt that I was justified at being angry... but how I dealt with it was ENTIRELY new to me. It scared me a little.

A few weeks ago, my dog kept snagging things from around the house that she knew she wasn't supposed to have in an attempt to get my attention. I would take something from her, scold her, sit back down... and she would grab something else, repeatedly. Finally after about 5-6 times, I grabbed the folding chair at our computer, folded it up, and whipped it at her across the living room. I have NEVER, EVER done something like that. My daughter was appalled, and I think I scared her... which made me ashamed and I quickly apologized for my behaviour.

Now, twice in the last 5 days, I've lost my temper with external things going on around me that would have only agitated me in the past. I flew off the handle at my boss on Friday because of something I felt was unfair. Although I knew that I had my coworkers' support (which they voiced along side me) I later regretted how I had behaved. Today, I became angry with my daughters school because she got a dentention letter home for not completing 5 assignments since the beginning of the school year. (She's in 4th grade) This time, I called a friend to be the voice of reason and give me a different perspective.

Lately it seems like I can't think logically when I get angry. I feel like a little child, testing boundaries and learning what is appropriate... lessons that most people learned long ago.

What is even stranger, is that these outbursts have made me feel BETTER in the short term, before I reflected on how they might appear to others. Before, I would have internalized and rationalized away the anger. There have been times when this took a toll on me, both physically and mentally, because I just never dealt with anything. I let everything roll off of me and didn't acknowledge it.

I'm not convinced that this behaviour is 'stress' related. Things are going pretty well for me in my life actually. But... this change feels so abrupt... my comfort with it seems so effortless now compared to what it used to be, that I have to wonder ... Is there something wrong with me? I don't think I've done anything truly inappropriate (throwing the chair may have been) but it sure is DIFFERENT.

Its as if I've gone to the opposite extreme, and don't think about anything. As soon as I feel that tinge of anger, I act upon it... like a kid who hasn't ever had sugar suddenly moving out on his own and discovering Dairy Queen, I feel like I'm 'over-indulging' in something that has been taboo for me for my entire life.

So I guess the question is: Am I doing something wrong, or am I finally doing something RIGHT by dealing with these emotions as they surface???

:cry:
 

runvardh

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It's ok to be angry, but dialling back the external reaction wouldn't be a bad idea. Don't rationalize it a way, but allow your thinking to channel it a little so it's not as explosive. I've been working on this for 15 years though and it's still a slow process, so it won't happen over night.
 

Oom

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Has something happened recently that would make you not care about outbursts of anger? It's interesting that you would change to a completely opposite type of behavior without any catalyst.
 

runvardh

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Has something happened recently that would make you not care about outbursts of anger? It's interesting that you would change to a completely opposite type of behavior without any catalyst.

I figured it's just from relaxing and growing which has it's associated pains.
 

paperoceans

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Classic example of those who do not express their emotions finally snapping :D
 

Oom

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I figured it's just from relaxing and growing which has it's associated pains.

Yeh, good point. It takes some skill building in order to utilize unfamiliar emotions.
 

SciVo

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Congratulations on your new angriness! Like many people with a new ability, such as someone who has just gone through puberty and discovered sex, it will take some practice for you to learn how to use it in the most positive manner. (Edit: That reads ambiguously. I really do mean it as sincerely congratulatory. Everyone grows at a different pace in different ways, and I respect that.)

An important thing to remember is that anger is only a message about what you want -- like lust -- not necessarily something to act on right there. Just as you wouldn't necessarily jump on a cute person and start dry-humping them, so to is it in your best interest to control your expressions of your anger in order to maximize your ability to get what you really want.

Emotions are messages from your subconscious about your perceptions with respect to your human psychological needs. In the case of anger, it's usually a message of a perceived violation of your personal boundaries. When you receive that message, the first two steps are to identify the need involved and explicitly validate it to yourself; for example, "I need respect." Then you can move on to questioning the perception: "Does my dog really disrespect me? No, it probably isn't smart enough to understand how it should behave to show respect for my authority. In order to get it to act the way I want, I would be better off spending some quality time rewarding it for behaving properly, or else just satisfying its need for attention when manifested."

You may need to engage in some fantasizing of different scenarios in order to make this new approach instinctive. I encourage that. The main thing is to always keep your eyes on the prize, focusing on what you really want and what actions will really help the most in getting it.

I wish you the best!
 
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MonkeyGrass

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I figured it's just from relaxing and growing which has it's associated pains.

I think this is absolutely true. The INTJs in my life tend to see their emotions as their weak point, the thing they can't have rational control over, and so they tend to deny that they have any. The crappy part of that is, they tend to miss out on maturing in the "how to express emotions to others" department.

They know when they're mad, but, historically, they just inwardly stew, rather than wander in the unfamiliar territory of self expression. As they relax and grow and mature, and need to take their life to a new level, outward expression of in-the-moment emotion becomes a necessity. So, you've got an experimental period of expressing your deep anger without crossing the line and destroying things/relationships. There's a learning curve to it, I think. :yes:

Sounds like you're alreadt doing what's going to help most: observing the reactions of others (like your daughter), filing the info away, and adjusting your level of outward reaction accordingly. :hug:
 

Mempy

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Yeah, I'm curious what's brought this change about as well.

Anger. Hmm. Anger, I've found, is almost always a response to feeling, on some level, hurt. There are a lot of ways to deal with anger: no one way completely equips you, but I've found that many numerous, small ways of looking at people and the way things are add up.

Learning to deal with anger is a lifelong process. I've read a lot of self-help books that deal in part with hurt feelings, anger, and how to cope so that your life is happier and more stress-free.

A few things, off the top of my head, that might help you:

1. Everyone has a right to be happy. This is a way to look at other people, especially when they're doing something that might otherwise annoy or anger you.

"Think about it for a minute. Everyone wants to be happy--people you know and those you don't; people you like as well as people you can't stand. Good people, bad people--everyone wants to be happy and everyone, in his or her own way, is trying to be happy. Even people who do bad things often are doing those bad things in some weird attempt to make themselves happier. It's just part of being human."
--Richard Carlson, Ph.D, from his book Don't Sweat the Small Stuff For Teens

When you think this way, and see someone doing something that seems unfair to you or others, or inconsiderate, or just plain ignorant, it strengthens your compassion for them. When I see a coworker behaving poorly, I can say, "Well, in her own way, she's trying to be happy. I don't think she's doing it right, but she thinks this will make her happier, and we all want to be happy."

2. Things don't happen to you. They just happen. A thing that brings a lot of stress and pain into your life is the unspoken, unacknowledged belief that everything is about you. It's amazing to me how easy it is for me and everyone else I've ever met to take things personally. When a person's behavior makes us feel bad--maybe it inconveniences us a little or a lot, or makes us feel inferior, or lonely--it's a very human trait to assume the person knew it would make us feel that way and even intended for us to feel that way. But people can't even begin to know how we feel, let alone set up elaborate ways to make us feel that way. What's even more amazing to me is, I can be suspicious even of my closest friends and family members. It can really feel sometimes like they just don't care.

The truth is, the vast majority of things other people do have very little, if anything, to do with me. It's all about them. This helps me take things a little less personally.

Have you ever had someone in your family leave their clothes in the washer? I did, last night. My automatic response was to get irritated and think, "Now who would be that inconsiderate?" Then, I looked closer and realized they were my clothes that I had left in the washer. LOL. I'd completely forgotten about them. In that moment, I could vividly imagine my mother having the same reaction I just had to finding my clothes in the washer. But I hadn't left them there because I was purposely being selfish. I had innocently forgotten they were still there. She could have taken it personally, like I did. But this puts it in perspective. The things people do have little, usually nothing, to do with us.

Very rarely does someone do something with the intention of making you feel badly. The point is, people are innocent. Even when they do things to hurt you, they're only doing it for reasons that have little or nothing to do with you and almost everything to do with them.

The other day, I was at a fireworks show with a good friend. The air was electrified with the sounds of hundreds of thousands of people sitting on the riverbank on both sides. I was loving the atmosphere and the energy. Then a man behind me turned on his radio. I could no longer hear the energy in the air over the music. I beared with it for a while. It crossed my mind several times to ask him to turn it down just a bit, but I knew from experience that that wasn't likely to go well. I was afraid of the angry response I would receive. I wasn't angry. I was trying to see him as someone who had a good reason to turn the music on: maybe he thought everyone around him would enjoy listening to it (a little later, he responded in a way that solidified this possibility). I just really wanted him to turn it down a bit so I could go back to feeling the energy. My friend sitting next to me had been noticing the entire time how bothered I was. Finally, she said that she would ask him to turn it down for me. She did. Politely. He responded quite amiably. First he asked, "It's a fireworks show, and you don't want to hear the music?" But he humored us quite kindly and turned it down for us.

But his companions. Oh, no. Two women, sitting in lawnchairs next to him, had an immediate and angry response. The first thing out of the one's mouth was, "Move," and she shooed us away sharply. The other said, "We're not turning it down," even as the man was already doing so.

After sitting with my hurt for a while, I realized that the two women weren't responding to me and my friend. They were responding to how they perceived me and my friend. Their response actually had nothing to do with us. The only way I can figure it is that they must have perceived us as being in some way selfish or inconsiderate.

The man gave us the benefit of the doubt. He didn't understand why we wanted the music turned down, but he must have trusted that we had a good reason. And we certainly did. I dwelled on it for a while, wondering if I indeed had been inconsiderate or selfish to ask. That was probably the most painful part about the experience. But I had a sincere and strong desire to hear things other than music that night. My desire was no less justified than theirs, just different.

I wished sincerely, for the rest of the night, that those two women would have granted me and my friend the benefit of the doubt and seen us as we really were: innocent.



3. It's not all about you. This idea is so good, and so essential to a happy life, that I feel like repeating it. I've realized that the way people respond to me has very little to do with me. I can be acting the same way toward two different people, and one person will respond poorly, perhaps becoming offended and irritated, while the other will laugh and slap me on the back. This realization that it's all or mostly about them has helped me tremendously in all aspects of life.

I work at a convenience store. When one customer is impatient and rude to me, I remind myself that they're not responding to me. They're responding to the way they perceive me, which has pretty much nothing to do with me. Maybe they're in a bad mood, or in a hurry, or having a tough week, or thinking entirely about other, more stressful things, or see the world in a suspicious and terrifying light. The point is, it's all about them--not so much about me. Reminding myself of this helps me not to sweat it when I receive curt or rude treatment. It's not me. It's not personal.

So there are three things that might help you right off the bat. If you can become even 10% less likely to take things personally and become angry, your life will be greatly improved. Look for the innocence, remember that everyone has a right to be happy, and realize that it's not all about you--in fact, it's all about them. These three ideas are so related it's hard for me to separate them neatly in my mind. But they help me tremendously to be more compassionate toward people and to not sweat other people's behavior so much.

Also, I'd highly recommend pretty much any book by Carlson. He has a lot of versions of his book Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, and the two I've read have both had tremendously helpful insights and ideas.
 

SciVo

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^ What Mempy said! My version is just to assume that people are thoughtless and self-centered until proven otherwise -- and I don't think poorly of them for that, since it just means that they're human like me. When that fails to explain their behavior and I have to start considering more drastic possibilities (such as deviously manipulative and paranoid lack of empathy), that's when I get angry and scared.
 

Lethe

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So I guess the question is: Am I doing something wrong, or am I finally doing something RIGHT by dealing with these emotions as they surface???

Personally, I say it is not how much or what you feel, it is how you deal with them that matters in the end. Anger, like the physical sensation of pain, tells us where we stand in regards to the subject. Sometimes this reveals our deeper emotions: past frustrations, inner sadness, an inspiration to initiate change, and so on. When someone is overwhelmed by their anger, they have already built up more negative energy than any amount of logic could settle. Therefore, it should be very reasonable to acknowledge these feelings to determine the message your subconscious is urgently sending. Once you discover the root causes and sedate them with a compromise, the anger will subside. Physical and mental pain often follows the same instincts and survival guidelines, except that we tend to treat the physical bruises with little reluctance or philosophical disputes.

In retrospect, we can't control those sensations, but we can determine how this sensitivity will affect our judgment, and ultimately, decisions. Remember that wishing away the pain only provides a temporary solution, while actively finding a way to suitably relinquish it offers a longer-lasting comfort.

So yes, get angry. Let them out however and whenever you choose.

Just not in the wrong place or time. ;)

*Edit: I didn't read the prior posts. Apologies for any repetition, esp. with SciVo's post. I will leave my response up since it's already here.
 

tinkerbell

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So I guess the question is: Am I doing something wrong, or am I finally doing something RIGHT by dealing with these emotions as they surface???

:cry:

Hi

my 2ps worth - you are learning a new skill and sometimes that will come out badly and you need to learn to manage it without totally supressing it (as ou have been doing).

The bigger picture is you are allowing yourself to experience emotions... something you have probably not done so much of before.... so well done at that.

You need to allow yourself a degree of learning curve on how to be angry without being over the top or getting really stroppy with people who have power over you like your boss (I'm not saying don't ever get angry with them but careful about it).

Anger us rarely ever about anger - anger masks something else... fear, hurt, threat, shame, etc...

In the middle term I say you need to think about why you are angry - some of which may be much more deep rooted than you currently think. Some of your anger may be directed at yourself for not having empowered yourself to respond when possibly you should have.. that is only to be expected... others will be better addressed through other emotions. Figure out why you were so angry in the past.

Now you have discovered/are discovering how to express anger - what are you thinking about in terms of other emotional states... you might want to think about how you express them too.

I think you are doing something really healthy, but you need to go through the new skill learning curve - over use needs to reduce into normal use (without over doing it).

There is a great book on Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goldmann - but it's a heavy read - but it goes through all the emotions, which is interesting... it might help you unpick what you are angry about.

If your anger is largely related to being unempowered - think about taking an advocasy class or at least developing advocasy skills... This will allow you to deal wiht things BEFORE you want to get angry... This will take some energy out of you and it needs for you to understand the triggers of anger before you get to the emotion.... those are different skills again.

You might also want to think about some self esteem rewards.... what you have done is actually quite hard to do, you have changed something in yourself - so how about giving yourself a treat - buying yourself a bunch of flowers or something.

It's the relationship with yourself that is important here I think - figuring out the why's and trying to work on skills: expression, then management, then developing advocasy/assertivness, then understanding your pressure points
 

Mempy

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Anger is natural, human, and a part of life. Some things are worth getting irritated or angry about, but a lot--most things--aren't.

You are doing something right when you acknowledge and feel your anger. I would never recommend pretending not to feel angry when you are. But feeling and acknowledging your emotions doesn't have to mean that you let them loose on others or allow them to lead you to behave in destructive ways.

The way you have described yourself as behaving seems potentially destructive. Anger, unleashed on others in a raw form, is, at best, unproductive, and at worst, it totally backfires on you. You want to minimize the tension when you're tackling problems of import, and getting angry, while it can make you feel powerful, seems like little more than an attempt to feel in control. It escalates tension, makes people feel unsafe, can hurt people, and impedes rational, generous, respectful discourse, which is exactly what you want to foster. I've found it's almost always far better to try to delay your reaction, to try to see the person's innocence and strengthen compassion for them, before even thinking about tackling a beef you have with them.

Feeling anger is a good first step. It's tremendous, really. I think a lot of people are truly afraid to show anger, to even admit they have aggressive feelings, so they deny to themselves and to others that they have them. The way I see it, every ugly and negative emotion you can admit to having moves you closer to happiness and less stress.

But you would have a much easier time of things if you learned various ways of dealing with anger that don't involve unleashing it in a raw form.

What's true is, the less irritation and anger we feel, the less stressed we are. The happier and less stressed we are, the more frequent our good moods, the more generous, compassionate, and fun to be around we are. So the task, as I see it, is to develop ways of looking at the world that produce less anxiety, stress, irritation, hurt, and anger in my daily existence. We learn these helpful perspectives slowly, over time, from different sources and experiences. It's a lifelong process.
 

Lethe

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But you would have a much easier time of things if you learned various ways of dealing with anger that don't involve unleashing it in a raw form.

Yes, essentially, I see it this way: if you treat your (mental or physical) wounds as they appear, the less problematic they will be for others and yourself. :) The more you choose to ignore it, the more you risk getting an infection that will take the cut even longer to heal. Your mind will continue to send a stronger signal each time you ignore it and as the damage amplifies. So be aware of how much intensity you can handle, and try to recuperate before the warnings grow unbearable. At a certain point, traveling with the infection overtaking half of your vital space is a bit impossible and unnecessary when the treatment is right there.

*Edit:

For much of my life, I've been unemotional, especially when it comes to ANGER.

Same. My anger is more of the implosive type: outwardly, I appear mostly unemotional; internally, I don't recognize this disturbance before it's too late. You could have easily been writing my own story.

Lately it seems like I can't think logically when I get angry. I feel like a little child, testing boundaries and learning what is appropriate... lessons that most people learned long ago.

Neither can I.

Yet I have a quick temper and the faint frown lines to prove it. ;) On the other hand, being a J, I love using my frustration productively, instead of allowing them to control my reasoning. So to save some time, I've recently Googled and selected some articles that reflect my views, which you may also find useful. Note that I keep my distance from authors who use (their) personal values to control anger. Instead I say this value is for the reader to decide.

A. Why Do We Need Anger? -- Anger is a Tool

B. Managing Anger: The Tool Box

Tool#5: Assertive Communication

Tool#8: Retreating & Expressing Anger

C. Anger & Your Beliefs

D. Dealing With Your Anger & Others'
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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These are some really great responses guys. I'm reading carefully, and everything you're saying makes sense.

Something I thought about last night...

In the past, I did SO much 'empathizing' with the other person that I would ultimately de-value my OWN right to be angry about something. It caused me a lot of stress and self-doubt. Each time that I justified someone else and set my own feelings aside to avoid conflict, it reinforced the idea that 'My anger is never justified'.

What I've learned over the last few years is that there ARE times when my anger is justified. I have had a bad habit of letting people take advantage of me in the past, and its something I've been working on.

I also realized last night that each of these things (except for the dog, who was just driving me crazy) were instances where I became angry because I felt that something was UNFAIR.

This theme of things not being fair has been a recurring one since we had a death in my family last winter. It seems like the more I try to accept the fact that dammit, LIFE ISN'T FAIR... the angrier I get about it because there's nothing I can do to change it. When instances come about where I feel I can MAKE something fair or feel that maybe someone is deliberately trying to cheat me it seems to set me off. It could be where these outbursts are coming from.

I'm still not sure about it, but it seems logical. Now the question is how exactly to deal with that anger in a reasonable way. Perhaps I'm taking it out on the wrong people.
 

tinkerbell

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I'm still not sure about it, but it seems logical. Now the question is how exactly to deal with that anger in a reasonable way. Perhaps I'm taking it out on the wrong people.

A few further thoughts, no ones' life is fair... things are sent to test us all, sometimes we win other times we loose....

Dealing with anger from the past is difficult because it manefests in the now and is not that situations fault. But it's important to recognise that anger.

Asertiveness is the key to reducing anger in the long term... that and allowing yourself to feel hard done by when you are hard done by.... :) You are human...

But please don't loose your sense of empathy, you can be empathetic and understanding of other people without playing the door mat. It's not a tug of war... simply by expressing yourself more (in an appropraite way), will make you feel empowered.
 

Totenkindly

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Awesome thread. :)

I think everyone else is giving some great analysis and feedback, Misty, so I'll just offer you encouragement by saying you are not alone.

I've had an emotional awakening in the last few years too. All of my life I tried to set aside or dismiss my emotions, partly because of my personality (that's how I deal with processing information and making decisions), but also because my childhood had a lot of unresolvable pain and frustrations and disregarding my emotions was the only way I could successfully function; and the hardest thing I found during this time when I was finally embracing both joy and sorry, compassion and anger, was that I had no way to calibrate whether the emotions were "good" or not. It was literally like going through puberty (emotional puberty, I suppose), and everything seemed new and different and ambiguous.

Eventually I figured out that emotions just "are," for good or bad. They should be experienced and embraced, but not necessarily acted upon.

Scivo's post above gave a pretty succinct and awesome analysis of why anger occurs (i.e., aggressive defense against hurt, because one's boundaries were crossed in some way). The emotion is a signal of some broader reality that can be examined in more depth if the signal is followed back to its source.

Good luck on your journey learning to work through and accept these sorts of feelings. I know I feel far more alive nowadays than I did back when I was ignoring those signals.
 

Dizzy

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Anger often has a reason, but seldom a good one...
I mean by that you should find a way to show anger in an appropriate way, slamming doors is not one of them. Even though it is quite tempting at times.
 

INTJ123

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You taking Kung Fu lessons?

You know that's funny, we're both intj but your life story and mine are completely opposite. I grew up expressing anger a lot and being hyperactive and calmed down as I got older, but I'm still not afraid to be angry at all. Might have something to do with being a male though.
 

SciVo

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In the past, I did SO much 'empathizing' with the other person that I would ultimately de-value my OWN right to be angry about something. It caused me a lot of stress and self-doubt. Each time that I justified someone else and set my own feelings aside to avoid conflict, it reinforced the idea that 'My anger is never justified'.

What I've learned over the last few years is that there ARE times when my anger is justified. I have had a bad habit of letting people take advantage of me in the past, and its something I've been working on.

Yes! This is a very important step. Whenever you disregarded your own perspective and devalued your own emotions, you became the greatest threat to your own happiness! An ego divided against itself cannot stand, so you have to validate your universal needs and their associated human feelings before you can healthily question your mortal perceptions.

I also realized last night that each of these things (except for the dog, who was just driving me crazy) were instances where I became angry because I felt that something was UNFAIR.

This theme of things not being fair has been a recurring one since we had a death in my family last winter. It seems like the more I try to accept the fact that dammit, LIFE ISN'T FAIR... the angrier I get about it because there's nothing I can do to change it. When instances come about where I feel I can MAKE something fair or feel that maybe someone is deliberately trying to cheat me it seems to set me off. It could be where these outbursts are coming from.

I'm still not sure about it, but it seems logical. Now the question is how exactly to deal with that anger in a reasonable way. Perhaps I'm taking it out on the wrong people.

I'm always happy to see someone with a need for fairness. We already have too many who couldn't give a rat's ass. The key to success here is to see society as a ballroom dance: to get anywhere, you have to work with your partner(s) and work around the people around you. Also, as with dancing, you'll get better with practice; so just keep on working at it. Eventually, while still feeling the anger at unfairness, you'll also get to decide for yourself what specific action (if any) would achieve the best result.
 
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