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  1. #11
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    So I guess the question is: Am I doing something wrong, or am I finally doing something RIGHT by dealing with these emotions as they surface???
    Personally, I say it is not how much or what you feel, it is how you deal with them that matters in the end. Anger, like the physical sensation of pain, tells us where we stand in regards to the subject. Sometimes this reveals our deeper emotions: past frustrations, inner sadness, an inspiration to initiate change, and so on. When someone is overwhelmed by their anger, they have already built up more negative energy than any amount of logic could settle. Therefore, it should be very reasonable to acknowledge these feelings to determine the message your subconscious is urgently sending. Once you discover the root causes and sedate them with a compromise, the anger will subside. Physical and mental pain often follows the same instincts and survival guidelines, except that we tend to treat the physical bruises with little reluctance or philosophical disputes.

    In retrospect, we can't control those sensations, but we can determine how this sensitivity will affect our judgment, and ultimately, decisions. Remember that wishing away the pain only provides a temporary solution, while actively finding a way to suitably relinquish it offers a longer-lasting comfort.

    So yes, get angry. Let them out however and whenever you choose.

    Just not in the wrong place or time.

    *Edit: I didn't read the prior posts. Apologies for any repetition, esp. with SciVo's post. I will leave my response up since it's already here.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
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  2. #12
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post

    So I guess the question is: Am I doing something wrong, or am I finally doing something RIGHT by dealing with these emotions as they surface???

    Hi

    my 2ps worth - you are learning a new skill and sometimes that will come out badly and you need to learn to manage it without totally supressing it (as ou have been doing).

    The bigger picture is you are allowing yourself to experience emotions... something you have probably not done so much of before.... so well done at that.

    You need to allow yourself a degree of learning curve on how to be angry without being over the top or getting really stroppy with people who have power over you like your boss (I'm not saying don't ever get angry with them but careful about it).

    Anger us rarely ever about anger - anger masks something else... fear, hurt, threat, shame, etc...

    In the middle term I say you need to think about why you are angry - some of which may be much more deep rooted than you currently think. Some of your anger may be directed at yourself for not having empowered yourself to respond when possibly you should have.. that is only to be expected... others will be better addressed through other emotions. Figure out why you were so angry in the past.

    Now you have discovered/are discovering how to express anger - what are you thinking about in terms of other emotional states... you might want to think about how you express them too.

    I think you are doing something really healthy, but you need to go through the new skill learning curve - over use needs to reduce into normal use (without over doing it).

    There is a great book on Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goldmann - but it's a heavy read - but it goes through all the emotions, which is interesting... it might help you unpick what you are angry about.

    If your anger is largely related to being unempowered - think about taking an advocasy class or at least developing advocasy skills... This will allow you to deal wiht things BEFORE you want to get angry... This will take some energy out of you and it needs for you to understand the triggers of anger before you get to the emotion.... those are different skills again.

    You might also want to think about some self esteem rewards.... what you have done is actually quite hard to do, you have changed something in yourself - so how about giving yourself a treat - buying yourself a bunch of flowers or something.

    It's the relationship with yourself that is important here I think - figuring out the why's and trying to work on skills: expression, then management, then developing advocasy/assertivness, then understanding your pressure points

  3. #13
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    Anger is natural, human, and a part of life. Some things are worth getting irritated or angry about, but a lot--most things--aren't.

    You are doing something right when you acknowledge and feel your anger. I would never recommend pretending not to feel angry when you are. But feeling and acknowledging your emotions doesn't have to mean that you let them loose on others or allow them to lead you to behave in destructive ways.

    The way you have described yourself as behaving seems potentially destructive. Anger, unleashed on others in a raw form, is, at best, unproductive, and at worst, it totally backfires on you. You want to minimize the tension when you're tackling problems of import, and getting angry, while it can make you feel powerful, seems like little more than an attempt to feel in control. It escalates tension, makes people feel unsafe, can hurt people, and impedes rational, generous, respectful discourse, which is exactly what you want to foster. I've found it's almost always far better to try to delay your reaction, to try to see the person's innocence and strengthen compassion for them, before even thinking about tackling a beef you have with them.

    Feeling anger is a good first step. It's tremendous, really. I think a lot of people are truly afraid to show anger, to even admit they have aggressive feelings, so they deny to themselves and to others that they have them. The way I see it, every ugly and negative emotion you can admit to having moves you closer to happiness and less stress.

    But you would have a much easier time of things if you learned various ways of dealing with anger that don't involve unleashing it in a raw form.

    What's true is, the less irritation and anger we feel, the less stressed we are. The happier and less stressed we are, the more frequent our good moods, the more generous, compassionate, and fun to be around we are. So the task, as I see it, is to develop ways of looking at the world that produce less anxiety, stress, irritation, hurt, and anger in my daily existence. We learn these helpful perspectives slowly, over time, from different sources and experiences. It's a lifelong process.
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  4. #14
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mempy View Post
    But you would have a much easier time of things if you learned various ways of dealing with anger that don't involve unleashing it in a raw form.
    Yes, essentially, I see it this way: if you treat your (mental or physical) wounds as they appear, the less problematic they will be for others and yourself. The more you choose to ignore it, the more you risk getting an infection that will take the cut even longer to heal. Your mind will continue to send a stronger signal each time you ignore it and as the damage amplifies. So be aware of how much intensity you can handle, and try to recuperate before the warnings grow unbearable. At a certain point, traveling with the infection overtaking half of your vital space is a bit impossible and unnecessary when the treatment is right there.

    *Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    For much of my life, I've been unemotional, especially when it comes to ANGER.
    Same. My anger is more of the implosive type: outwardly, I appear mostly unemotional; internally, I don't recognize this disturbance before it's too late. You could have easily been writing my own story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    Lately it seems like I can't think logically when I get angry. I feel like a little child, testing boundaries and learning what is appropriate... lessons that most people learned long ago.
    Neither can I.

    Yet I have a quick temper and the faint frown lines to prove it. On the other hand, being a J, I love using my frustration productively, instead of allowing them to control my reasoning. So to save some time, I've recently Googled and selected some articles that reflect my views, which you may also find useful. Note that I keep my distance from authors who use (their) personal values to control anger. Instead I say this value is for the reader to decide.

    A. Why Do We Need Anger? -- Anger is a Tool

    B. Managing Anger: The Tool Box

    Tool#5: Assertive Communication

    Tool#8: Retreating & Expressing Anger

    C. Anger & Your Beliefs

    D. Dealing With Your Anger & Others'
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    These are some really great responses guys. I'm reading carefully, and everything you're saying makes sense.

    Something I thought about last night...

    In the past, I did SO much 'empathizing' with the other person that I would ultimately de-value my OWN right to be angry about something. It caused me a lot of stress and self-doubt. Each time that I justified someone else and set my own feelings aside to avoid conflict, it reinforced the idea that 'My anger is never justified'.

    What I've learned over the last few years is that there ARE times when my anger is justified. I have had a bad habit of letting people take advantage of me in the past, and its something I've been working on.

    I also realized last night that each of these things (except for the dog, who was just driving me crazy) were instances where I became angry because I felt that something was UNFAIR.

    This theme of things not being fair has been a recurring one since we had a death in my family last winter. It seems like the more I try to accept the fact that dammit, LIFE ISN'T FAIR... the angrier I get about it because there's nothing I can do to change it. When instances come about where I feel I can MAKE something fair or feel that maybe someone is deliberately trying to cheat me it seems to set me off. It could be where these outbursts are coming from.

    I'm still not sure about it, but it seems logical. Now the question is how exactly to deal with that anger in a reasonable way. Perhaps I'm taking it out on the wrong people.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  6. #16
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    I'm still not sure about it, but it seems logical. Now the question is how exactly to deal with that anger in a reasonable way. Perhaps I'm taking it out on the wrong people.
    A few further thoughts, no ones' life is fair... things are sent to test us all, sometimes we win other times we loose....

    Dealing with anger from the past is difficult because it manefests in the now and is not that situations fault. But it's important to recognise that anger.

    Asertiveness is the key to reducing anger in the long term... that and allowing yourself to feel hard done by when you are hard done by.... You are human...

    But please don't loose your sense of empathy, you can be empathetic and understanding of other people without playing the door mat. It's not a tug of war... simply by expressing yourself more (in an appropraite way), will make you feel empowered.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Awesome thread.

    I think everyone else is giving some great analysis and feedback, Misty, so I'll just offer you encouragement by saying you are not alone.

    I've had an emotional awakening in the last few years too. All of my life I tried to set aside or dismiss my emotions, partly because of my personality (that's how I deal with processing information and making decisions), but also because my childhood had a lot of unresolvable pain and frustrations and disregarding my emotions was the only way I could successfully function; and the hardest thing I found during this time when I was finally embracing both joy and sorry, compassion and anger, was that I had no way to calibrate whether the emotions were "good" or not. It was literally like going through puberty (emotional puberty, I suppose), and everything seemed new and different and ambiguous.

    Eventually I figured out that emotions just "are," for good or bad. They should be experienced and embraced, but not necessarily acted upon.

    Scivo's post above gave a pretty succinct and awesome analysis of why anger occurs (i.e., aggressive defense against hurt, because one's boundaries were crossed in some way). The emotion is a signal of some broader reality that can be examined in more depth if the signal is followed back to its source.

    Good luck on your journey learning to work through and accept these sorts of feelings. I know I feel far more alive nowadays than I did back when I was ignoring those signals.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Member Dizzy's Avatar
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    Anger often has a reason, but seldom a good one...
    I mean by that you should find a way to show anger in an appropriate way, slamming doors is not one of them. Even though it is quite tempting at times.

  9. #19
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    You taking Kung Fu lessons?

    You know that's funny, we're both intj but your life story and mine are completely opposite. I grew up expressing anger a lot and being hyperactive and calmed down as I got older, but I'm still not afraid to be angry at all. Might have something to do with being a male though.

  10. #20
    Senior Member SciVo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    In the past, I did SO much 'empathizing' with the other person that I would ultimately de-value my OWN right to be angry about something. It caused me a lot of stress and self-doubt. Each time that I justified someone else and set my own feelings aside to avoid conflict, it reinforced the idea that 'My anger is never justified'.

    What I've learned over the last few years is that there ARE times when my anger is justified. I have had a bad habit of letting people take advantage of me in the past, and its something I've been working on.
    Yes! This is a very important step. Whenever you disregarded your own perspective and devalued your own emotions, you became the greatest threat to your own happiness! An ego divided against itself cannot stand, so you have to validate your universal needs and their associated human feelings before you can healthily question your mortal perceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    I also realized last night that each of these things (except for the dog, who was just driving me crazy) were instances where I became angry because I felt that something was UNFAIR.

    This theme of things not being fair has been a recurring one since we had a death in my family last winter. It seems like the more I try to accept the fact that dammit, LIFE ISN'T FAIR... the angrier I get about it because there's nothing I can do to change it. When instances come about where I feel I can MAKE something fair or feel that maybe someone is deliberately trying to cheat me it seems to set me off. It could be where these outbursts are coming from.

    I'm still not sure about it, but it seems logical. Now the question is how exactly to deal with that anger in a reasonable way. Perhaps I'm taking it out on the wrong people.
    I'm always happy to see someone with a need for fairness. We already have too many who couldn't give a rat's ass. The key to success here is to see society as a ballroom dance: to get anywhere, you have to work with your partner(s) and work around the people around you. Also, as with dancing, you'll get better with practice; so just keep on working at it. Eventually, while still feeling the anger at unfairness, you'll also get to decide for yourself what specific action (if any) would achieve the best result.
    INFP ~ Fi/Ne/Ni/Te ~ 9-2-4 sp/so

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