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  1. #31
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    How is this any different, and specific to ENTPs, from how INTPs treat humanity in general?
    Well, contrary to popular belief. We are capable of respecting people for who they are, however, this quickly changes if they insult our methods (without fair arguementation).
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #32
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Well, contrary to popular belief.
    That was MY belief! So...you think I'm popular, eh? Awww...shucks!

    THANK YOU!

    We are capable of respecting people for who they are, however, this quickly changes if they insult our methods.
    Ohhh, go on, stop pulling my leg. Have you ever NOT confused a human being with a potted plant? [rhetorical]/subtlety

    (without fair arguementation).
    How does one even objectively evaluate 'fair'? Either way, all is fair in love and war.

  3. #33
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That was MY belief! So...you think I'm popular, eh? Awww...shucks!

    THANK YOU!



    Ohhh, go on, stop pulling my leg. Have you ever NOT confused a human being with a potted plant?
    Ah yes! It is true we respect plants and other life forms incapable of unintelligent speech more.

    Without fair arguementation meant to be condemning or refuting someones way of life without bothering trying to understand it. For your information, Simulated had a problem with me, but I had no problem with him other than the fact he had a problem with me.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #34
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Ah yes! It is true we respect plants and other life forms incapable of unintelligent speech more.
    "Incapable of unintelligent speech more".........ah, sweet, sweet, irony, I bathe in your flavour.

    Without fair arguementation meant to be condemning or refuting someones way of life without bothering trying to understand it. For your information, Simulated had a problem with me, but I had no problem with him other than the fact he had a problem with me.

  5. #35
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    "Incapable of unintelligent speech more".........ah, sweet, sweet, irony, I bathe in your flavour.
    No speech is not unintelligent speech.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #36
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    No speech is not unintelligent speech.
    Righhtt..
    that doesn't make any sense, I hope you realise that.

    intelligence is socially defined through communication and so speech what you say only would work if intelligence was some sort of an absolute.

    classic intp
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #37
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Righhtt..
    that doesn't make any sense, I hope you realise that.

    intelligence is socially defined through communication and so speech what you say only would work if intelligence was some sort of an absolute.

    classic intp
    Well some could say the smartest thing someone could say is...nothing! If a plant called me fat, you're damn right I'll drown it or un-pot it!

    But as long as they are silent, they get to live. Sounds pretty smart to me.



  8. #38
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Well some could say the smartest thing someone could say is...nothing! If a plant called me fat, you're damn right I'll drown it or un-pot it!

    But as long as they are silent, they get to live. Sounds pretty smart to me.
    (hello friend!)
    yeah but then you still get into the previous wall, meaning it's all socially defined to begin with.

    Your idea is a simili of those experiments in developmental psychology when young children don't have a well defined idea of the object permanence.
    Taking it out of the equation doesn't make it less real.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #39
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    You're apparently one of the few INTPs who doesn't have his head too far up his ass to recognize the wealth of things he can learn from ENTPs, so congrats on that.

    You're right, we do make a lot of the things you do seem cooler because we have better command of Ne and thus can connect the ideas to the external world more effectively.

    My best friend since 7th grade is an INTP and I try to pick up clues on how to better utilize Ti from him. He sometimes uses me as an example for better Ne, but largely just doesn't even understand the value in Ne and would rather hide away in Ti-land until the cows come home.

    I think this is representative of a broader trend of INTPs failing to recognize that any process other than Ti ever has any value.

    In truth, ENTP and INTP can teach each other more than any other type because they are just two sides of the same person. Each should study the other in order to learn his auxiliary function more effectively.

    But don't try and tell that to INTPs--to them we're just the loud flighty inconsistent version of themselves who talks too much. They see the decreased precision created by weaker Ti, but somehow completely miss the vastly improved abstract connectivity allowed by stronger Ne! My INTP friend does recognize that I'm better at certain things than he is, but I find it very difficult to explain them to him because he refuses to accept any explanation that can't be translated directly into Ti terms, which is horribly limiting. As Einstein (ironically himself an INTP) pointed out:


    No problem can be solved from the level of consciousness which created it.

    If most INTPs really understood Ne on anywhere the level that we do (or even acknowledged its fucking value in the first place!), they'd pay a lot more attention to our techniques, and thus would be able to improve upon their chronic social awkwardness and self-defeating tendencies. (Let me guess--"BUT WHAT LOGICAL REASON IS THERE FOR ME TO TRY THAT??")
    Unfortunately most INTPs are so good at Ti-ing their way out of whatever problem they want until they short circuit themselves into believing it's not even a problem, many don't even recognize the potential value in these changes. Makes me rather frustrated with you at times.

    I think mainly you overvalue Ti to such absurd proportions that you shy away from your auxiliary Ne because you're NEVER willing to sacrifice precision for broader abstract connectivity, and it's very silly at times. Logical precision is not always priority #1, just in case you hadn't heard.
    As an INTP, I have to say that this post is pretty spot on - at least for me(especially the bolded part). It does seem like you say it in a negative/condescending way, but either way it resonates with me. I have to admit that I rely so heavily on Ti - and when I run into problems, I escape to Ti-land. So, I think you're are right on in the fact that the 2 types have so much to learn from each other. I sometimes think if I could just get my Ne working like my ENTP friends, it would open up a whole new world of opportunities and I'd be able to implement the things I want to implement much more fluidly.

    I think what you overlook here though - at least for me (can't speak for all INTP's) - is that I try very hard to evaluate what ENTP's are doing. It's not that I don't WANT to learn their Ne techniques - I very much do. It's more like it just doesn't come to me. Try as I might, I often feel stuck within the confines of who I am - Ti comes first, Ne is a distant second. Would I like to have Ti and Ne be equal partners? YES!!! Can I just watch a few ENTP's in action and suddenly flip a switch and have my Ne work as effectively as yours? I'm not so sure.

    Flip it around and pretend for a moment that you very much desired a very strong Ti. You wanted more Ti and less Ne. Would you be able to just change like that? Or would something feel "off" inside of you - like you weren't being yourself? We all know what it feels like to try to fit into ESTJ-land and its not fun. The same goes for trying to diffuse our primary Ti - or trying to bolster our weaker Ne into the superhero that it naturally is not. It's difficult. It's not just a matter of "obersving a few ENTP's" and life is a cakewalk from there. By nature, we are wired to have Ti first.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Well some could say the smartest thing someone could say is...nothing! If a plant called me fat, you're damn right I'll drown it or un-pot it!

    But as long as they are silent, they get to live. Sounds pretty smart to me.

    You're not very smart, then, are you?

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