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  1. #71
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Omph. That hits home for this INTJ.

    Guilty of all the above.

    And also this:
    Indeed. Although, I wouldn't say that I have faith in people to act rationally and with good intentions.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #72
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    How do you mean by methodical? I'll happily adjust my ideas if you can show me that they are incomplete/just plain wrong, but I'm not sure what you are driving at here.

    As for Fi, I confess that I was speaking from the view point of tertiary Fi. So basicly, my own experiences. A more prominant Fi function may well moralise on issues of no particular prominance, but I know I don't!
    Your Te and Fi descriptions were pretty good, but you described Fe as a sort of random, aimless "let's just have fun!" kind of function when that's really much more applicable to Se/Ne.

    Fe aims to foster emotional connections between people for the purpose of organizing others into purposeful goals. Fe users do tend to make an effort to be personally and emotionally involved with others, but it's less because "hey this is FUN!" (you see that in EFPs a whole lot) and more because they feel it's their moral duty to actively make plans to help others.

    As for Ti, it will solve puzzles and such for fun, yes, but I find that this is much more common for NTPs than STPs, because Ne plays a big role in the desire to complete hypothetical patterns. STPs seem to enjoy more hands-on, physical puzzles like electronics or cars, etc.

    Remember that Fe is the dominant function of EFJs, meaning people who place it as one of the top two functions are going to be less sporadic/random and much more focused on external world organization.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #73
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Your Te and Fi descriptions were pretty good, but you described Fe as a sort of random, aimless "let's just have fun!" kind of function when that's really much more applicable to Se/Ne.

    Fe aims to foster emotional connections between people for the purpose of organizing others into purposeful goals. Fe users do tend to make an effort to be personally and emotionally involved with others, but it's less because "hey this is FUN!" (you see that in EFPs a whole lot) and more because they feel it's their moral duty to actively make plans to help others.

    As for Ti, it will solve puzzles and such for fun, yes, but I find that this is much more common for NTPs than STPs, because Ne plays a big role in the desire to complete hypothetical patterns. STPs seem to enjoy more hands-on, physical puzzles like electronics or cars, etc.

    Remember that Fe is the dominant function of EFJs, meaning people who place it as one of the top two functions are going to be less sporadic/random and much more focused on external world organization.

    Thank you, that was interesting. I'm not entirely surprised that I understand Te-Fi best, seeing as they are my own functions.

    I think it is worth remembering that functions rairly act on there own. Your description of STPs makes complete sense to me, as it is their Se function that provides the information that the Ti function uses, so they are liable to focus in on physical logical systems systems, such as the electronics you mentioned. NTPs gather through Ne, and so like abstraction.

    I guess that idea also applies to the main question of Fi and Fe. I think the results are liable to be influenced by the percieving function used in conjunction. The descriptions of Fi/Fe I've seen above certainly seem to work when Si is used, but I'm not sure about other combinations.

    I'm an Fi user myself, but I focus it through Ni, which is probably why I see most moral problems in shades of grey. Many of them probably have no answer, as the information required cannot be known. Is a war justified? Will it do more harm than good? Maybe, but it is impossible to know before hand. You just have to make a judegment call and hope you are right. I'd be inclined to say that the decision either way only becomes immoral if your reasons are not based around that judegment, such as cowardice or greed. In short it's not the actions that dictate morality but rather the intentions.

    How would an Se or Ne user react? Would the Se user weigh physical suffering/distruction more prominantly than a metaphysical loss of pride or soveriegnty? Would they care much who the king is as long as they keep order and let them live their lives? And an Ne user? I'm sure yu could answer that question better than me.

  4. #74
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    I know someone who does this too! I'm not sure, but I think she's INFP. The things that bother her are benign and easily avoidable, so I don't have a problem with not mentioning them. But then part of me thinks, if they're so benign, why bother asking people not to talk about them? But I guess they matter to her?
    Hmm... I had a friend who did this with stuff she didn't like.
    She's ESFP I believe.

    From an INfP perspective I don't see myself doing that with the snake thing.

    The snake can be a metaphor as an example of how I use my Fi. Say I'm with some friends and they all are passing around this really huge snake or something I may not like or agree with *A statement/opinion perhaps. The snake could stand for whatever*

    I'd simply not care if they want to hold the snake as long as they don't force me to hold the snake. People can express their views and opinions in front of me no matter how much I dislike or disagree, who am I to try to inforce my opinion on someone? That's my opinion not their's.
    "Each their own".
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    Fi defines ethics according to the self. What is right and wrong is a function of private and personal values, and does not depend at all upon any validation from other people or any external factors at all. Introverted functions operate "in a vacuum"; that is, an Fi user is concerned with what is inherently ethical as defined by his own internal value set, and this is very very unlikely to change.

    "What do I know in my heart is right regardless of what anyone else says?"
    Fi is more likely to declare its enemies evil or amoral.

    Fe defines ethics according to the environment. What is right and wrong depends upon what ethical/social standards are observed and practiced by the community group. Fe adapts its conception of ethics to the emotional texture of its environment; this is why strong Fe users are so attuned to the emotional needs of others--the validation comes from without, not from within. To Fe, there is no such thing as "ethics in a vacuum" because we cannot make an external judgment until some external goal or context has been defined.

    An Fe user moving from one culture to another would have an easier time adapting his etiquette standards to fit the new surroundings--Fi would almost never do this, as it doesn't value any external validation for its moral belief system.
    Really like that Fe description :O. I've misunderstood Fe as well prior to MBTI as well Sofmarhof.

    I don't like to consider people amoral or evil though just cause they see something in a different way from my viewpoint *from the Fi statement*.

    That Fi description I personally agree with though . Specifically the parts Underlined. Your very good at this stuff SW.

    Hope I'm not interrupting anything and that this is helpful in some way from an Fi perspective . If not heh, carry on. Simply tried to provide another perspective. *wondering if shall delete as if afraid I might be intruding/not adding much*
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

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