User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 39

Thread: NT Leadership

  1. #21
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTj
    Posts
    5,908

    Default

    I've had a Fe dominant boss trying to inject morale in a non-Fe group (ENTJ, ISTP, ISFJ, ENFP). The effect is the opposite. People think "Why is he wasting time in all that bullshit, instead of telling us what should be done"? Bottom line: it's just a matter of preference. I don't need somebody telling me "You can do it! Let's do it for X and Y". I already know why we are working...just tell me what to do, and I'll get it done. No need to build a "team" atmosphere. That kind of relationships either form naturally because of shared mindsets, or do not form at all.

  2. #22
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    ^^ yes, indeed. ^^

    I've looked upon T-preference friends of mine as they bemoan how they have to waste yet another evening going on some crappy "team building" exercise at the behest of their boss, or attend some pointless seminar on team dynamics and gentle criticism, when all they want to do is get their work done and go the fuck home. What would increase their morale would be if the boss would just tell them WTF they have to do, let them get on with it and give them honest feedback before giving them the next job, and cut all the phoney "harmonious workplace" crap.

    Meanwhile my sister and mom (both ExFJ's) who sing the praises of these companies they work for, exactly because they make them do those things!

    Go figure. I guess it's a case of choosing the people you hire carefully - and making sure I pick T's in future

    Actually I think that might be my problem. Thinking just now about the people I've worked with all these years and the ones I've had to fire (including the recent spate), I must say that my company/work environment has been very T dominated, and the ones who've not lasted have all been F's.

    So maybe that's what it is then. Personal preference.

    Neither way of running a business is more or less effective than the other in objective terms - it all depends on the make-up of the staff. Obviously the bigger the company the more staff there are, so the more mixed bag you'll get. But since mine has always been proudly small...

    Let's see... current staff (excluding the ones at issue) include: 2xENTJ, ENTP, INTJ (long term co-bosses, with me at the top), ESTJ, ISTJ and ISTP (long-term minions). The people here at issue are the noobs: ESFJ and ISFP and the pro's: ESFJ and ENFJ.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFj
    Enneagram
    2w3
    Posts
    801

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I've had a Fe dominant boss trying to inject morale in a non-Fe group (ENTJ, ISTP, ISFJ, ENFP). The effect is the opposite.
    I'm in agreement. Different things get different types to work depending on the job. There is no 'one size fits all approach' from what I have seen. I think this is where MBTI has helped the most in learning to apply it practically.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute
    Go figure. I guess it's a case of choosing the people you hire carefully - and making sure I pick T's in future
    When interviewing people I attempted to type them in the process. I knew what types would work best and I knew what types had a tendency to apply. After hiring I tested for accuracy. You know what you want so you don't make the same mistake again hopefully. That's a good thing.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    263

    Default

    It is? I'd hardly call the equivalent of US$10 for an advert in the local paper 'costly' And besides, there's never been a shortage yet when I've fired someone, of people behind them wanting to step into their place.
    Time and knowledge is money.
    - Employee's knowledge about a company and it's structure has a value.
    - The training and time spend on making sure people carry out their tasks they way you want them to has a value.
    - The time spend on interviewing potential new employees has a value.
    - The time spend on registrating people in the company system has a value.
    - The time spend on fighting various unions because some people feel they've been sacked unfairly has a value.

    With bosses having to be both businessmen and counsellors/morale officers.
    I don't know if you read some of the debate I had with FL but here's a post I wrote to him:
    If a leader isn't in tune with the emotional state of his/her employees, he/she simply isn't in tune with an essential part of his/her company. Yet, I've spend time with more primitive leaders who've litteraly bragged about treating their employees unnessecarily harsh and inconsiderate. These kind of simple minded old school leaders will usually explain their behaviour with "running a business is only about making money" to which I can only reply "exactly!". To willingly be blind to the emotional state of the people you'r hired to lead is willingly being blind to people you've invested in i.e. dangerous and foolish.

    BTW, I don't know anything about the company you had or your leadership style, so I didn't post it as a pun to you, just as my generel opinion on the subject.
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Sometimes I think people have to draw the line with how far you're going to keep saying everything's the boss' fault. Sometimes the boss can do everything in their power, everything they're supposed to do, and yet things still come falling down because of some useless minion that simply doesn't pull their weight and lets everyone else down.
    Yeah, some people were just not meant to work togeather. Like in all human relations, some people bring up the best in each other and others bring up the worst. Sometimes, guilt can be placed on why a co-work just didn't work out, other times it's just tough luck.
    Verbal IQ Test

    SubFacor IQ score = 65
    Subscale percentile = 1

    You appear to have a very limited vocabulary and lack the ability to identify the correct responses for a variety of different questions. A deficient vocabulary can hinder you in many ways; you may struggle to find the correct words when speaking, fail to understand what others are communicating to you, or come across as inarticulate to others.

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Oh yeah... Excellent post.
    I think nowadays people are allowed to be so touchy it's ridiculous. It's amazing how people get uptight and angry at some things. Everything in organizations these days is being geared towards manipulating others or "How to get others to do things for you while they feel happy about it".
    Exactly, who has time to be everyone's therapist when you've got things to do?
    I've noticed with ENTJs that because they are Te + Ne dominated that they learn to be very diplomatic- by strategically placing a well-received response here and there- but that often because it's said without the touchy-feely Extroverted Feeling- people might become inadvertently "hurt" when there is no emotion attached to responses.

  7. #27
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    This thread is turning into a cigar smoke filled room with mahogany wood and women serving drinks wearing bunny outfits.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #28
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    4,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    This thread is turning into a cigar smoke filled room with mahogany wood and women serving drinks wearing bunny outfits.
    Scrap the bunny outfits and I'll serve my own drinks TYVM, but otherwise... is that so bad?

    And I prefer oak

    EDIT - I will interject however that the INTJ and the ESTJ that work with/for me are both women... and the ENFJ I'm having trouble with is male. Just in case that was what you were thinking, y'know...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #29
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Scrap the bunny outfits and I'll serve my own drinks TYVM, but otherwise... is that so bad?

    And I prefer oak
    Yeah, it's cool as long as I get my pomegranate and mango aromatherapy with guys you could bounce a quarter off their chest feeding me grapes.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    The double standard is just unacceptable. If I were to "just forget" or "have too many personal problems" to sort out the wages one week, they'd all soon be lining up to tell me I should take care of my responsibilities when others are relying on me. Yet when their laziness literally meant that my wages were cut - since theirs were fixed salaries and what I got to live on was whatever was left of the takings once their wages and the overheads were taken out - well, that was just tough shit for me wasn't it?
    You are the boss. That is the price you pay for being in the leadership. Most people are inherently incompetent at leadership (wheter they like taking charge or not). I got a little taste myself, and decided it wasn't for me.

    The problems you talk about are presicely the things you need to get good at solving, to be a good leader.

    When you look at the world leaders of today and of history, the good ones are those who lead with no regard to their 'title', the bad ones are the ones who rely solely on their title or position to stay in power.

    Theory X vs Theory Y. Both are self-fullfilling.

    EDIT:If you don't want to lead but would rather just manage... have you thought about getting contract workers?
    Last edited by ygolo; 10-15-2007 at 05:20 AM. Reason: EDIT:If you don't want to lead but would rather just manage... have you thought about getting contract workers?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] NTs.
    By SolitaryWalker in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 06-07-2007, 11:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO