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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default Friend INTJ academic competition

    So, I met this friend INTJ of mine at a time I was very obsessed with intelligence. It was the center of my life. I scored about 2,5-2.8 standard deviations up from the norm. I hadn't found many people like me. I met him, and he was 3.0-3.2 standard deviations above the norm, so about 0.5 std devs. I understood the intellectual pecking order was him on the top, me below. I've heard from more than a few people it's the other way, but I was IQ test religious back then.

    He went on to pursue a career in academia. I sought him to be a friend supporting my intellectual pursuits, I hoped we could do some of them together. I wished he would have been my peer. I had moved from university studies (on the same field of study) to work after a few years and gathered street smarts. He, none.

    We talked about mathematical modelling methods to reduce the time & space complexity of the calculation of sound propagation in architectural structures. He told about a few models, we discussed. I suggested a model that would make an aural "holograph" of a facet in an imaginary 3d structure, modelling the 3d space as an in-out function of the sounds going in and out. It was a novel finding, as none of the previous work suggested making a 2-dimensional image of both the phase and the amplitude and applying it to that context.

    The thing is. Hmm. Well. He neglected the idea when he spoke about it. Lured me to tell my ideas of it. In the end, it wasn't supposed to be much anything. He used his authority I had given him to dismiss my ideas as not very worthy.

    Half a year after he described a novel method exactly like the one I had described. No mention of my contribution to the subject. He had taken the idea as his own. In a way, I didn't mind. I'm not seeking the favor of the same academic people. But, in a way it hurt. Is he becoming another professor who just finds the brilliant ideas his students make and takes them in his own name?

    I learned not to trust him too much. He's somewhat of a friend. Good friend, even, or okay, borderline. But.

    He writes dozens of papers. He has years of more education than I. Our friendship hasn't been the same after I understood him using my ideas without proper credit. That's about the worst as it comes in academia.

    What's so bad in giving credit to someone who's worth it?

    I'm disappointed to be treated as just another person to be "gamed", especially when he tries to portray an image of intelligent but socially weak person, possibly someone who couldn't abuse his relationships.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #2
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    ...and?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #3
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    That's enough, silly. Perhaps there's enough of ideological INFx to believe I should forever not abuse people and wish same for myself, and it would somehow make me feel balanced in life and good feelings.

    The other idea I thought about is to murder the people I want with an axe. Okay, bad joke. But, I don't really want to go all the way in me-against-the-world thing. I feel happier believing in the goodness of 0,1% of people as opposed to believing none of them are good. Per latest results, I'm much more happier than people in my group per age, wage, etc. Part of the happiness comes from believing. I wouldn't want to lose that. My belief about the goodness of extremely few people on earth is thin enough already, I wouldn't want to become disillusioned any more.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    I'd ask him about it, especially if he's a former friend.

    Something similar happened to me as a French lit grad student. A professor who hadn't published any articles in a while took one of my papers from his class tweaked it here and there and published it. It wasn't even one of my best papers. It was pretty obvious to everyone because the department was small and everyone pretty much had their own way of interpreting things and it was clearly my way.
    Imagine his embarrassment when I confronted him about it?

    In any case, I didn't pursue the matter 1)because it was related to a century and book I cared nothing about and would never write anything related again and 2) I figured the guy needed the steal more than I needed the credit or as Kanye puts it "I forgot better shit than you ever thought of"

  5. #5
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    If the amount of time between your explanation and his was somewhat significant it could be that he forgot you saying it and stored it in his brain, and then when it came up again he thought it was his.

    This happens.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #6
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I don't seek much purpose with this, but I'm sad about it. I thought about what was being said about getting the kind of treatment one allows for themselves. Putting him on a pedestal even though he feels he's competing of the same things with me was.. hmm. I don't have a word. I just wanted to express my sadness, that's the most of it.

    I have learning of my own to do as well. It'll turn out for the good.

    Perhaps there is a point.

    All of these kinds of experiences point me to be ruthless, not to love the random person, not to give them benefit of the doubt etc. Deep inside (and this is no joke) I've believed in my youth we're in this together at core, although most of the surface seems to be filled with self-serving ideals. My ideas have become more real, I'm rather realistic and all that right now.. but there's some core in me that tells I should believe. An idealistic core. Yes, I'm much idealistic. All of this just depressed me, saddens me..

    I've joked that ENTJ see the world as a theater of war, and I know I could take that viewpoint for myself quite well. Better than most. But, there's that idealist core in me that prevents me from fully adopting that world view.

    Perhaps I'm trying to find ways to handle the competitive life and still have care for my fellow man. It's tough to balance, but I hate how everything - the life itself - is encouraging me to be a double-faced bastard. I won't be, but I'll have to accept a life with less fulfilling ideals if I want to survive. Really, it's hard not turning to crime.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    If the amount of time between your explanation and his was somewhat significant it could be that he forgot you saying it and stored it in his brain, and then when it came up again he thought it was his.

    This happens.
    Agreed. That kind of thing happens to me, too.

    If it didn't, though... the best thing to remember, is that NTs are bastards. Especially NT writers. They WILL abuse their relationships and discussions with you in order to get ideas for their books. Never turn your back on them...

    A certain "Iconoclast" did this to me, for instance. When I read his book, it was so obvious that he had formulated most of his ideas from discussions with me and others.

  8. #8
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I'll ask him about it. Good night.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #9
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    So, I met this friend INTJ of mine at a time I was very obsessed with intelligence.
    Maybe it is different at second sight - maybe it's not as a literal a copy as you think and you've "merely" inspired him, maybe he forgot you told him and the idea hatched in his brain when the circumstances were right and maybe he simply forgot and independently came to the same conclusion.

    Or he could be a dick in which case I'd confront him.

    Also, official crediting of something you say in a casual conversation as a non-academic person...not really done. Of course if he's aware you had the same idea, he could've at least told you "hey, I'm using that idea of yours after all...it turned out to have potential"...

    You seem to care a lot about these things for an ENTJ...or an ENTJ might care, but you do it in a non-I'll-fucking-obliterate-him way.

  10. #10
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not required to play my type to the stereotype, am I? Good night.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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