[INTJ] Friend INTJ academic competition

[SciVo]

Oh, you know academics. If you didn't publish it yourself, then clearly it wasn't rigorous enough to credit.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I was looking more to be acknowledged in the informal part in writing, and verbally in person, too.

Lols your way if rigorous is the only thing you put value in.

Edit: I've got some stuff I'd like to work on, and I was looking with a partner to work it with. Apparently he likes being uninnovative more, writing more papers of what improvement other's have done, more papers of another dead end and the null result he has found. He'll earn his salary this way as well. He's extremely unenthusiastic about his work, but he wanted it desperately too.

Perhaps this is what offends me. I was trying to get an uninterested, ISTJ-like "secreteer", "paper juggler", "list-maker" as my project partner, where he values things by the amount of boredom elicited. "Why go on an adventure of undefined project, when I can do standard work and no innovation at all within the confines of my office".

/end

 

[SciVo]

I was looking more to be acknowledged in the informal part in writing, and verbally in person, too.

Lols your way if rigorous is the only thing you put value in.

I was describing my perception of academics' values. You seem to have misunderstood, so I think that you must be very tired.

As for the other, you have my sympathies. That sounds very frustrating, to find a desired partner so unambitious.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I am sorry, I did misunderstand. On a second reading I understood what you talked about.

 

[notsweetynice]

Well after reading over your posts it does sound like this guy stole your ideas...Hmm, but I think most people who get their self respect from their ideas and intelligence wouldn't do that. The rewards for stealing an idea just wouldn't mean much.

 

[tinkerbell]

now tell me,

Would I be considered evil if I pointed out that ideas have no intellectual property value unless they are protected/can be protected under IP law....

Chatting with a firend doesn't constitute ownership of an idea. Writting it down and having a date stamped record would give you soem copy write.

From the sound of it he didn't do anythign deliberate (so worth giving the benefit of the doubt)

Sorry I don't mean to be contentious.....(she said poking the submit button with a stick and backing away from the laptop).


PS did you know (a few very random bizzar things).
That a blue tit bird was first cited as having learned to peck throuhg milk bottle tops in Bristol - which was copied a week or so later in Norfolk (probably c.350-500 miles away)....

And that there was an expeeriment done on TV with an abstract picture being shown in an Ad break in the UK - which had the non abstract version shown aftwerwards - the research tested peoples recognition of the picture it was better recognised as the non abstract version.... However a few days later the abstract was tested in a different country - and it was found they could tell what the abstract was at a similar level of the non abstract version...

Point being is that people can have similar ideas at a similar time without their nessesarily being a visible causation......

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Omg, all of you who you think that "lolz, what ur friend did is legulz" constitutes a fitting argument in here, get a clue. Really. That the best you can do? True argument, yes, I wouldn't even begin thinking it wasn't. How stupid do you think I am? But a fitting argument? Something said at a good time? Something relevant? No.

 

[SciVo]

As my role with you appears to partly be devil's advocate, I must point out that someone with a high IQ is never on solid ground assuming that others think him stupid. Rather, it is always more likely that they do not realize how much is obvious to him.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I am becoming ashamed for ranting in here and being treated well. Well, being treated in all the different ways.

Anyways, many thanks for all of you who have understood. This is more of a social thing than anything else.. but, something more, something I don't have a word for.

I liked to hear this common phenomenon - and a problem - having been recognized. Many of us have experienced something that doesn't necessarily constitute idea theft, but we've felt used. I think one of my problem was giving him the crown of intellectual superiority too easily - it didn't work well when I tried to prove myself to him by contributing to his work all that way. I accepted his authority too easily, when I should have done what I always do - test the ideas, and don't put much weight on authority. I've made myself as a lesser person due to all that.

To be honest, this is one of the most insignificant issues one could have, but there's something there I can't quite put my finger on. Some kind of stupidity I've been guilty of I haven't fully understood yet.

Perhaps my lesson would be: Santtu, don't try to buy approval by doing favors.

 

[Kalach]

Is that what you did? At the time these things happened, you were aware of trading something for something? Or you're looking back and putting a negative slant on liking and trying to respect someone since it went wrong later and there doesn't seem to be another way to fix it?

Don't sweat it. One day when he tries to say sorry, you'll let him, but he won't know that you did.

 

[SciVo]

To be honest, this is one of the most insignificant issues one could have, but there's something there I can't quite put my finger on. Some kind of stupidity I've been guilty of I haven't fully understood yet.

They're cognitive biases, to be precise; stupid or smart has little to do with it. The halo effect (from your perception of his IQ) and projection bias (expecting him to share your values) put in appearances. Also, looking at Charlie Munger's "Causes of Human Misjudgment," I see #15 liking distortion in there. All this is very human of you.

I recommend reading Robert Cialdini's Influence as a kind of vaccine. It took a very long time per page for me to read that book, because I had to spend so much time on subconscious processing between chapters.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I asked him about this, but since it's more than a year since I studied the thing, I couldn't explain it nearly well enough. He had written a paper about the kind of method I had scetched, but it had apparently been already invented. Neither of us remembered the original details in my plan.

Faster methods have apparently been found during this time, and his interest has moved to them. He remembers I had suggested the method, which seemed promising at the time, but his emphasis was on the point that my method alone wasn't enough to make it work. So, filling in much obvious stuff, and one non-obvious addition, he wanted to make the distinction that my model didn't work, but his did.

That's a peculiar way of expressing that I defined the most important parts, but not everything.

So, some kind of defensive thing going on there. "It's my creation now, I added this thing to it". Well, no worries. He remembered! I'm also happy for having created something he feels like wanting to own, and that he knows it.

Sad that it wasn't as novel a finding as I had thought.

I'd work with him, provided he didn't take the results of collaborative work out of our team without consulting me. We wouldn't be the best partners, perhaps, okay maybe. There's disparity. He knows much more methods than I do, and how to execute them, but he suffers from "not invented here" syndrome, is protective of ideas, and other stuff. For some strange reason, he seems very consensus-driven in his approach. Very inside-the-box thinking. Having learned a lot he doesn't believe in being able to create original ideas. "If it were any good, it must have been invented elsewhere" is his mantra to most everything, most especially his own ideas.

I don't understand the big role history plays in his mind. If something hasn't been done already, it probably can't be done, he thinks. If something has been done, it can't be invented again, but it must be applied to something the original inventor thought of. Just the way like it was ment to be used. I'm surprised how much he's so much of an follower in science, too, even though he's good. I mean, socially he's much of an follower, too.

I'm surprised. I thought he'd be eager to do something first, to invent stuff. He's really more in for the application, with much less original thinking than I thought of. I guess he likes the ease of proving some research results in where the general method have been already proven.

I can kind of understand that. If someone creates a website, a commercial product or something like that, he can be as inventive or uninventive as he wishes, and it doesn't need to be proven to anyone. Customers use it, or customers don't use it. In his circles, things have to be proven to death, and as he's not very good convincing anyone or getting partners, he goes for the things others would be ready to accept. Which is, application of already invented things.

I think I'm getting a full picture here.

 

[SciVo]

That all makes sense to me.

I'd work with him, provided he didn't take the results of collaborative work out of our team without consulting me. We wouldn't be the best partners, perhaps, okay maybe. There's disparity. He knows much more methods than I do, and how to execute them, but he suffers from "not invented here" syndrome, is protective of ideas, and other stuff. For some strange reason, he seems very consensus-driven in his approach. Very inside-the-box thinking. Having learned a lot he doesn't believe in being able to create original ideas. "If it were any good, it must have been invented elsewhere" is his mantra to most everything, most especially his own ideas.

It appears that you would be very poor partners if you value your personal satisfaction as much as the objective team performance (and you should I want you to). I only point this out because all that waffling about your compatibility implies that you're not assigning much value to your subjective experience, even though it's inescapable.