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  1. #21
    Senior Member Dansker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I respect how commanding and decisive ENTJs are. These are valuable personality traits. I have difficulty understanding why some people are so intimidated by a person with presence.
    Agree.

  2. #22
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I respect how commanding and decisive ENTJs are. These are valuable personality traits. I have difficulty understanding why some people are so intimidated by a person with presence.
    It's not the presence; other types have that. It's the unreadable face and lack of sincere interpersonal regard combined with the drive for efficiency that makes people wonder what this person is capable of when cross/ed. Usually it seems, not much of concern, but most people you meet aren't going to know that.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNFJiminy View Post
    It's not the presence; other types have that. It's the unreadable face and lack of sincere interpersonal regard
    Where did you get the sincere lack of sincere interpersonal regard from? Sounds like just another misperception and your own projection. If anything, ENTJ's are more sincere than the accomodating Fe types that like to come off nice even though they don't really like the other person. At least you know that when ENTJ's are nice with you it is honest because if they didn't like you they would tell - after all they don't care about causing conflict.

  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Where did you get the sincere lack of sincere interpersonal regard from? Sounds like just another misperception and your own projection. If anything, ENTJ's are more sincere than the accomodating Fe types that like to come off nice even though they don't really like the other person. At least you know that when ENTJ's are nice with you it is honest because if they didn't like you they would tell - after all they don't care about causing conflict.
    It's unfortunate you've been the victim of bad Fe. See this for my take on bad Te.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #25
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    Where did you get the sincere lack of sincere interpersonal regard from? Sounds like just another misperception and your own projection. If anything, ENTJ's are more sincere than the accomodating Fe types that like to come off nice even though they don't really like the other person. At least you know that when ENTJ's are nice with you it is honest because if they didn't like you they would tell - after all they don't care about causing conflict.
    Um, MBTI theory, experience, this thread...

    I didn't say they never have any interpersonal regard, which I think you're defining differently to me. I meant the ones who seem intimidating appear to have a relative lack of it, as in don't, for its own sake, naturally think about how they come across or whether people enjoy their company in certain contexts. Other types consciously think about these things frequently during any interaction. Several ENTJs have expressed this themselves.

    What you say about ENTJs being honest because they don't care about causing conflict is an example of what I mean by lack of interpersonal regard. It's not the same as not caring about people, it's just not caring for the semi-innate, semi-culturally constructed social niceties that other types use to measure and strengthen the socio-emotional bonds, mutual understanding and/or security they value. Which has been validly argued may be a good thing.

    Fe types can be insincere as anyone else, and may be more likely to be in certain situations, but that's not what defines an Fe type. Fe, like all the functions is something that primary users of it have as a default mode and a source of pleasure, not merely as a means to any other end, although like all the functions it can also be employed to achieve more specific things, both good and evil.

  6. #26
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNFJiminy View Post
    It's not the presence; other types have that. It's the unreadable face and lack of sincere interpersonal regard combined with the drive for efficiency that makes people wonder what this person is capable of when cross/ed. Usually it seems, not much of concern, but most people you meet aren't going to know that.
    How are you connecting unreadable face with lack of interpersonal regard?

    If you mean all this bullshit:

    t's not the same as not caring about people, it's just not caring for the semi-innate, semi-culturally constructed social niceties that other types use to measure and strengthen the socio-emotional bonds, mutual understanding and/or security they value.
    Then I'm proud of lacking it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    How are you connecting unreadable face with lack of interpersonal regard?
    I'm not. They're two issues that have been brought up in the thread and seem to contribute to the phenomenon in question.

  8. #28
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    In my experience, they're only intimidating in the sense that if you dare question them, or question their idea/conclusion about something, then you're in for it. With an unhealthy one - They will NOT let go, and won't drop it unless you pretend that you agree with them. Or you can just become quiet and let them have the last word. That works too.

    And, the unhealthy ENTJ has NO room for other perspectives. She is right. End of story. Let's just say the combo of me and an unhealthy ENTJ is...explosive. (well, explosive on her part - I simply stayed quiet and walked away. End of that. ;-) But I continue to be friends with two healthy ones, and find there's more openness, and a more balanced approach to people and ideas. Because, they truly do enjoy discussions, and talking out their ideas, and certainly have a lot of energy and follow-through. And, I find them very curious about others, and seem to really enjoy socializing and meeting other people.

    Just a guess here, but I think sometimes people might not be intimated so much...they just might see that there's not much of a 'point' in speaking up, or offering a differing opinion, because they know it'll either be shot down by the ENTJ, or it'll turn into a debate-fest, which they don't have any desire to take part in. So, it might be preferable just to sit there and not say/do anything.

    I guess I have kind of an apathetic attitude about it! I've just learned with my friends that if they've already made up their mind about something, there's not much point of saying anything to counter it, or put it into question. But if they haven't made up their mind - then yes, they can be quite open to your thoughts (whether they integrate them or not is another topic though! ;-)

  9. #29
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    And, the unhealthy ENTJ has NO room for other perspectives. She is right. End of story.
    I've seen the same thing very much in ENFJ's too. Except that while the ENTJ believes he's logically right, the ENFJ believes he's morally right.

    The distinction I seem to have noticed is that ENTJ can be persuaded by someone who just stands up to them, faces them down and clearly and directly states their issue with the ENTJ's idea/method/order. They're a bit like Klingons in that way... heheh... you have to be prepared to go through the fireworks to get to the sudden smile, slap on the back and complimentary cup of bloodwine.

    They only believe they've done 'wrong' if they can be proven to be objectively, logically wrong, and their logic proven to be flawed. Once you get past that hurdle, they'll start admitting and apologising for any personal pain they caused en route.

    Whereas ENFJ will never admit that they've done anything wrong at all, period. They're morally right all the time, and if they're ever logically wrong, then even the biggest amount of proof of it shoved right under their nose won't prevent them from wheedling out with "well I know it doesnt quite make sense, but it's what feels right, it's just something I have to do". I'd never hear an ENTJ saying that.

    And though ENTJ will say a rather lame-ass apology that amounts to "I was right and I'm not budging, but I'm sorry it upsets you" - and they really mean it, they are sorry it upsets you but just not sorry enough to alter their course and quite open about it, the ENFJ's version is even worse IMO: "I was right, therefore you had no right to be upset. I'm not altering my course of action and any decent person would be with me on this" thereby implying that you're actually not a decent person because you disagree with them.

    Given a choice between having my logic/work attacked or my personality, I'd prefer the former every time.
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  10. #30
    Wait, what? Varelse's Avatar
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    ^ Good points. I tend to be intimidated with most of the XNXJs that I know, merely because I do have respect for their intellect, they're usually certain of their conclusions, and I'm never certain of my own conclusions.

    Thus, if they're absolutely certain that they're right, and I'm wrong, my reflex is to figure out where I screwed up, because I'd only even approach certainty with a massive amount of research, and thus apply that assumption to them.
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