[ENTJ] When an ENTJ goes into a midlife crisis...

[Cypocalypse]

For a change, I'd put something different in this ENTP saturated forum as of late.

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I thought that some of you may find this interesting since ENTJs are probably the least likely to post in MBTI forums, the least likely to tell things about themselves, and the least likely among NTs to take MBTI into serious consideration.

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A couple of years ago (I was in my early 20s), I was posting regularly on a relationship forum of my university's unofficial online community. I have a considerable interest in relationships that time, since the thought of future isolation scares the shit out of me (eventually, I would end up in a stable ongoing relationship), even if my archetype (INTP) isn't exactly the most sociable one. Being still single in my early 20s somehow triggered a panic button of some sort.

At the same time, there was also an ENTJ posting there. Possibly around 20 years older than me. The forum is populated by people in their 20s, so he's a bit outside the majority, age-wise. He's suffering from a sort of a midlife crisis, most notable reason for it is that he was still unmarried, and he realized that time is not on his side.

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It's a sensor dominated online forum, and being among the few intuitives that post there, people initially thought that we're the same person posting under two usernames. It's possibly because of the intellectual flair in the way we post our opinions. But between the two of us, we don't like each other that much. Classic case of ENTJ-INTP grudge.

He sees me as the intelligent guy who "wastes" his intelligence by bumming around (classic INTP accusation). Not that I feel threatened by that. He knows he can't pursue an argument with me long enough because I might pull out a tangent line of reasoning that may put him off guard. And that's what I notice that ENTJs are scared off--things that could rattle their poise.

There was this time when he posted something on a certain thread. Something about how he feels that he's at the losing end of things when he brings out money on a date. Well, granting that ENTJs have that Donald Trump aura in them that makes women have interest solely on their money, he doesn't want to be taken advantage of in this set-up.

So I told him, "Why not change your strategy or approach if you feel that you're at the losing end of things?"

It pissed him off so much that he went into a childish line of reasoning, saying that he should be the more desireable guy between the two of us because he's the one who has the resources.

What the heck? I'm not even competing with him. It's not as if I have a better resume to begin with.

That made me laugh so hard because I think I just touched a nerve--one of the few instances an ENTJ lost his poise.

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It's an interesting ironic dilemma that I noticed in him. He knows he's at that losing end of the status quo, but at the same time, he's so scared of a paradigm shift that in the end, he still insists the virtue of something that he's losing at.

Is this something ENTJs are prone at?

He doesn't put that much regard in the merits of my statement though, probably because my statements are often connect-the-dots in nature and lacks "tangibles", or so he thinks.

Well, if you're dealing with human behavior, you have to have a good knack for connecting the dots because there are many intangibles.

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Eventually, I'd be in a relationship, and one of the best things that I've learned from an NFJ forum member is the art of positive scripting. It's more like the process of being politically correct. You need not care for the welfare of the other person, but you need not offend him/her.

It was something that I'm able to infuse in my INTP persona, letting me develop a strong Fi.

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That ENTJ guy is still single, and the new stuff I heard about him is that he's calling up girls from that community, some of which are my friends (he doesn't know, and those girls tell me) that are young enough to be his daughter. Jesus!

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Some thoughts that I just wanna share to ENTJs that could be reading this:

1. When a person is on a learning mode, he's not in the position to insist on his biases. EVER!

2. Only an intuitive can understand an intuitive. Don't expect much from the sensors though. Don't have a confrontational behavior towards an intuitive that can possibly help.

3. When setting up goals in a relationship that may involve minor tweaks in your personality, set REALISTIC ATTAINABLE goals. The ENTJ guy I just describes there wants to be the bad boy archetype (ESTP) so badly, it's funny. You don't become the archetype from the opposite spectrum overnight.

4. It doesn't mean that when you like to talk about sex, you're automatically regarded as a player. For some obscure reason, I notice that some of you like to talk about sex a lot, when it's questionable when you even had lots of it.

5. An INTP wants to talk with you. Really. Just don't have that superiority complex attitude.

 

[FDG]

1) Fair, but that's not type related.

2) I'm not really sure, sometimes a nice fun-loving ESFP carrying you to a party is better than philosophical wanking about relationships.

3) Fair, but that's probably more his issue than anything. He might have perceived that the women he liked so far would have enjoyed that type of attitude.

4) Usually it's meant as some type of joke, actually.

5) That's fair, but depressed people usually do not want to dissect their thoughts, do not want to know what exactly they are doing wrong and how they're doing it wrong (something that INTPs are apt at doing, even if involuntarily, even if with the best intentions). We'd just like some compassion/comprehension and kind advice. I understand that INTPs have kindness in mind when they analyze and criticize the behavior of another person, but that's not exactly how it looks like from the outside.

 

[Galusha]

something that people always forget when an ENTJ is asking for help is that we're putting someting (who knows what) on the line. It means that we have a few things figured out, but we can't quite put the pieces together in a way that satisfies us.

Now, this guy, who's going through his mid-life crisis-- imagine that he's asking for your help on something he really isn't good with (not a big stretch), say, interior design. He wants to paint a room blue and keep the coffee table. It doesn't matter if the coffee table sucks, he just wants to make it work in a blue room. Your advice to him is to demolish the room and start over with different stuff. No wonder he's offended! You told him what he has is useless and he's an idiot for trying in the first place.

So you see, he's not trying to learn, he's trying to understand. He has the information, but not the right perspective. Help him on that-- what's he's actually asked for help with. Also:

2. A sensor can understand if he wants to. It's not a mind block, just an inclination. Sometimes they're actually more helpful because they can see what's actually going on instead of the subtexts.

3. Changing ourselves for the benefit of others is the way we show we care about them, and is unfortunately a big blind spot. Who said it had to make sense?

4. Cause it's awesome. Duh.

5. It's an inferiority complex. If it was superiority, we would brush you off, not get defensive. Asking for advice is once again a way of showing that-- it means that you can contribute something. Whether you will or not just depends on whether you actually understand the problem.

 

[paperoceans]

 

[Shimmy]

1. When a person is on a learning mode, he's not in the position to insist on his biases. EVER!

2. Only an intuitive can understand an intuitive. Don't expect much from the sensors though. Don't have a confrontational behavior towards an intuitive that can possibly help.

3. When setting up goals in a relationship that may involve minor tweaks in your personality, set REALISTIC ATTAINABLE goals. The ENTJ guy I just describes there wants to be the bad boy archetype (ESTP) so badly, it's funny. You don't become the archetype from the opposite spectrum overnight.

4. It doesn't mean that when you like to talk about sex, you're automatically regarded as a player. For some obscure reason, I notice that some of you like to talk about sex a lot, when it's questionable when you even had lots of it.

5. An INTP wants to talk with you. Really. Just don't have that superiority complex attitude.

You're basically saying, stop being such an ENTJ (judging), and start becoming ENTP (perceiving). I must admit that I can't really stand people with a strong J dichotomy either.

 

[Cypocalypse]

Some notes:
Actually, after 3-4 years or so of our online slugfest, I'd have to say that we're both changed persons. I still have to give him some credits for that.

The problem with some ENTJs, is that they treat emotions as if it were to be restrained (not that INTPs aren't guilty of the same line of thinking), consequently making them often times guilty of making a politically incorrect statement.

What's worse, ENTJs start up conversations with their idea of what things ought to be.

1. An idea of what things ought to be.
plus
2. An idea that emotions should be restrained
plus
3. A seeming fetish for the provocation that political incorrectness creates
equals
The uber mega troll, easily put INTPs and ENTPS to shame.

Not that I'm necessarily saying that NTPs aren't trolling themselves, but the way we do our things, we usually use a lot of rhetorical questioning. Not that it doesn't get us into trouble (to some people rhetorical questions are politically incorrect per se), but the troubles were getting aren't that extensive.

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I think an ENTJ's line of thinking (even at subject matters they're not at their expertise) goes something like, "we're right, until someone who can stand up for their opinion proves us wrong". This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but take note that not everybody wants to fight.

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During the earlier years in our slugfest, I'm amazed with how he fights for his principles, even if he's at the losing end.

I would read some of his statements, and he'd sometimes post things like...

"A guy in his 30's is not yet at the peak of his earning capacity, so he cannot fulfill his yadda yadda..."

And then I thought, "He's still selling himself with those statements? The 40 year old guy with "better" earning capacity?"

I mean, Christ, if you don't want a woman leeching you, don't highlight that statement, regardless if it's your biggest defined trait.

There are other approaches that can be done with this, and unlike us INTPs who are bumming around in our 20s contemplating about the complexities of life and the universe, a rich ENTJ guy in his 40s has already got his material needs covered. He certainly has better room for exploring his humanity for a change, even if time may be running out. (unlike us NTPs who needs to map out a starting career while exploring our humanity in our early age)

I'd say this option of flexing out personality is a more feasible initial goal, than contemplating all the time about "why jerks get all the chicks without ever have to shed money, unlike me"

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The ENTJ now is in a more inquisitive mode lately (something he could have done earlier rather than insisting on his J pride). His line of questioning is more scattered and unsystematic. Still needs major room for improvement on how he correlates the facts that he's getting, but at least he isn't as politically incorrect as he used to be.