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  1. #1
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Default thinking types....

    I've been reading a wee bit around the subject of thought and some very simple obvious things came up that I hadn't thought about and wondered what people thought

    "In Ulysses James Joyce exploited the fact that we don’t think in words"

    In my mind I think this true, there is no words in my head, and it caused me to hpothesis that I think in sound.... Which in turn leads me to ask the question - if we think in sound (which wouldn't be a surprise), how do deaf people think (by deaf I mean totally, never heard a sound)....?

    The book goes on to question WHERE thinking is done... the brain can show which lobes and areas are stimulated, but you can't identify a specific thought....

    In the future is it possible that brain scanners will need to pick up the sound of our thoughts....


    Intrested in any thought on this....

  2. #2
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be hilarious if they discovered one tiny little neuron bumping into another tiny little proton, that that was the sum the complexity of our thoughts. Binary.


    You could also throw in the concept of perfection.
    We call know what a perfect circle is, and yet one cannot be created.

    (I'm pulling this from a thread I made that never took off the ground)
    Quote Originally Posted by Argus2968 View Post
    Let's imagine a mind or a brain that has come into being/born completely disconnected from all sensory input. No sight, no sound, taste, touch. Nothing. What would that mind think? could it think? It has no sensory experiance to draw on. No images, symbols, or representations. Not having seen or heard a language, what kind of internal dialogue (the only one it could have) would it have? could it have an internal dialogue? How can it articulate any thought with out sensory experiance. What would it imagine without any sensory experiance to reference. What would things like loud, red, beautiful, hot, cold, or alone mean to it?


    When you are thinking to yourself, how do you articulate your thoughts? With words / language? With images? With sounds? and sensations? What if you did not have any experiance of that to draw on? How could you articulate a thought? What would you think about? How could you think?


    Cast that into the light of the OP.

  3. #3
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Argus

    Yes, it would be the same as the deaf person... How do they have a dialogue if they have no language (which rihgt now we think is developed through copying...)

    I think intuatively I had already in my head decided that we actually think in sound (and not nessesarily within our brain.... presumably the Egyptians thought thinking was done in the heart). Hence all the "can't hear myself think" type stuff...

  4. #4
    Senior Member FallaciaSonata's Avatar
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    I think in both sounds and words. My thoughts occur to me in the form of my own voice, resounding in my head. That's the only way I think, that I'm aware of.

    My thoughts never stop --- I always go from one thing to the next, and they may seem to be random to some, but each thought has at least one aspect (however small it may be) of the thought that came before it. I described them to my Mom as "trailed thoughts".

    For example....thinking about Mountain Dew. Then corn syrup. Then corn. Then what I did in Produce (work) today. Thinking about tomorrow, planning, and so on.

    You mentioned deaf not being able to think in sound. Just curious, but do you think people who are born blind can "see" when they dream? Or are their dreams compilations of what their currently functioning senses pick up?

    My dreams I rarely remember, but when I do, they're quite vivid. Does the S/N dichotomy dream differently?

    Always remember to flank your enemies. History won't remember how dramatic your failed frontal assault looked. - Dragon Age: Origins

  5. #5
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallaciaSonata View Post
    I think in both sounds and words. My thoughts occur to me in the form of my own voice, resounding in my head. That's the only way I think, that I'm aware of.

    My thoughts never stop --- I always go from one thing to the next, and they may seem to be random to some, but each thought has at least one aspect (however small it may be) of the thought that came before it. I described them to my Mom as "trailed thoughts".

    For example....thinking about Mountain Dew. Then corn syrup. Then corn. Then what I did in Produce (work) today. Thinking about tomorrow, planning, and so on.

    You mentioned deaf not being able to think in sound. Just curious, but do you think people who are born blind can "see" when they dream? Or are their dreams compilations of what their currently functioning senses pick up?

    My dreams I rarely remember, but when I do, they're quite vivid. Does the S/N dichotomy dream differently?

    Actually you say you think in sound (your voice), when I said words I meant written words... so yes thinking in sound.

    I would guess - a deaf person may think in vibrations of some sort, if you are teaching a deaf person to speak you ask them to mimmic the sounds vibration....

    I'm thinking blind people may dream/visualise colour/light but certainly not images.. I think a fair few blind people have the ability to see light changes, certain conditions where the optic nerve is damaged probably means nothing, I don't have a clue what they would visualise... I think the difference between deaf and blind, is hearing is part vibration, that uses a different sense, and sight doesn't have a support sense so they have no experience of seeing obejcts to be able to hypothesis them... I don't know... all conjecture.....

    I do know that people who are bi lingual, dream in their native domnant tounge (not sure if that is true when they reside in a different country).

    If we think in sound then surely if we find a way to hear we can tap into some form of telepathy

  6. #6
    Senior Member Nizy's Avatar
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    I hadn't considered thinking of my thoughts as sound. In fact it took me a few minutes figure out just what form my thoughts are transmitted in. And even now I am not sure, "sound" still does not seem like an accurate representation.

  7. #7
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nizy View Post
    I hadn't considered thinking of my thoughts as sound. In fact it took me a few minutes figure out just what form my thoughts are transmitted in. And even now I am not sure, "sound" still does not seem like an accurate representation.
    Keep thinking about it and see if you come up with words for it...

    I hear my voice in my head, but you are right it might not be sound per sey, but it's pretty close but your ears are not invovled....

    You know that there are people with psyciatric conditions that have girls that sit on their shoulders and whisper to them.. Shoulder girls... (which is ofcourse just voices in thier head). Sometimes there can be multiple (one good one bad)....

    Keep thinking see if you come up with anything... it's weird to think of how unconsious we are of our own bodies

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post

    I would guess - a deaf person may think in vibrations of some sort, if you are teaching a deaf person to speak you ask them to mimmic the sounds vibration....
    Would a deaf person think visually, supposing that the person can't think vocally, for lack of a better word at the moment? Just without any sounds. Mainly pictures popping up in their heads. I don't think I can imagine silence too accurately since I usually still hear some sort of dull, droning noise. Usually when I do simple arithmetic in my head, I picture the numbers. Mainly because I need some sort of order, otherwise I would never be able to calculate. Although, I do believe there is a voice accompaniment to go with along with it. But I have a habit of muttering to myself, so I'm not too sure if that's worth anything.
    As for the bilingual dreaming, it might reflect what's used in day to day life. I've had dreams where it's in English, but I've also had dreams where it's in my native language. Or maybe it's warbled gibberish but the mind interprets it into English or my native language. I do use both a lot everyday though.
    I know when I daydream or space out, it's mainly visual. As in, I can be completely immersed in another environment outside where I am. But I'm having a hard time pinpointing visual or auditory thought processes in normal circumstances that'll require some thinking. I'll have to take notice. I mean, right now, I'm speaking along in my head as I'm typing this down, but I'm already conscious of the fact. I don't know if that makes a difference.

  9. #9
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veins View Post
    Would a deaf person think visually, supposing that the person can't think vocally, for lack of a better word at the moment? Just without any sounds. Mainly pictures popping up in their heads. I don't think I can imagine silence too accurately since I usually still hear some sort of dull, droning noise. Usually when I do simple arithmetic in my head, I picture the numbers. Mainly because I need some sort of order, otherwise I would never be able to calculate. Although, I do believe there is a voice accompaniment to go with along with it. But I have a habit of muttering to myself, so I'm not too sure if that's worth anything.
    As for the bilingual dreaming, it might reflect what's used in day to day life. I've had dreams where it's in English, but I've also had dreams where it's in my native language. Or maybe it's warbled gibberish but the mind interprets it into English or my native language. I do use both a lot everyday though.
    I know when I daydream or space out, it's mainly visual. As in, I can be completely immersed in another environment outside where I am. But I'm having a hard time pinpointing visual or auditory thought processes in normal circumstances that'll require some thinking. I'll have to take notice. I mean, right now, I'm speaking along in my head as I'm typing this down, but I'm already conscious of the fact. I don't know if that makes a difference.
    Hi

    Yes been thinking some more on this, of course it's not actual sounds (as your ears are not involved) - something perhaps about the nurones vibrating or something.

    In sound, the external world vibrates, your ear bones vibrat to capture the sound, which is transmitted by the Nurone to the brain, but we assume that is totally silent.... current measrument = electrical charge via nurone... but what if there are other things going on that we can't meausre, either sound of vibration or energy release or something....

    I appreciate for many people they can visualise in thier heads, but I've never heard of anyone who couldn't talk inside their heads....

    It is possible that the deaf person may think in pictures because they have more reliance on their visuals...

    It's funny because we think constantly (or should I say we talk in our heads constantly) even in sleep.... it's a core function, but I've never really paid any attention to what is really going on.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Hi

    Yes been thinking some more on this, of course it's not actual sounds (as your ears are not involved) - something perhaps about the nurones vibrating or something.

    In sound, the external world vibrates, your ear bones vibrat to capture the sound, which is transmitted by the Nurone to the brain, but we assume that is totally silent.... current measrument = electrical charge via nurone... but what if there are other things going on that we can't meausre, either sound of vibration or energy release or something....

    I appreciate for many people they can visualise in thier heads, but I've never heard of anyone who couldn't talk inside their heads....

    It is possible that the deaf person may think in pictures because they have more reliance on their visuals...

    It's funny because we think constantly (or should I say we talk in our heads constantly) even in sleep.... it's a core function, but I've never really paid any attention to what is really going on.
    I can picture an inner voice, but having more difficulty pinpointing it to the ear. Is it that the energy vibration from the auditory system is somehow being interpreted, via neurons, by the brain into something more "concrete" as words and such? Basically, the energy is bits of information that hasn't been processed or anything and once it's run through, that's when the interpretation comes into play and it arrives as an inner voice since it was delivered by the auditory system (?). This is interesting, although I'm not that familiar with neuroscience and such. So I'm only going out on a limb with this.

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