[MBTI General] Smartest in the world work Blue collar jobs

[INTJ123]

And yet this thread does not reflect that awareness. At all.

How about working on your interpersonal intelligence then? Keep the rudeness to a minimum please.

 

[FDG]

And yet this thread does not reflect that awareness in any coherent way.

It just focuses on one specific subset, which has been shown by a good number of studies to be related to "positive" social outcomes. Obviously a linear relation does not capture what happens to single individuals, especially at the tails.

 

[SciVo]

How about working on your interpersonal intelligence then? Keep the rudeness to a minimum please.

I mistakenly unconsciously assumed there would be greater linguistic precision in a thread about IQ. I apologize for the resultant expressions of my (in retrospect) unreasonable frustration.

 

[tinkerbell]

hmm interesting, never heard that before, will have to look into it.

Sorry it's not a thing it s principal, so not really worth looking up. Intellengce stops being a factors across the income scale once it gets beyond a certain point. Then it's qualities like leadership, inlfuence, etc.

Intellegence helps with the technical pocess of working it doesn't nessesarily help with office politics...

Physcial appearance comes into it

Do you follow me?

Lis

 

[tinkerbell]

This aticle is about wealth not income. but it's the same principal

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article1701377.ece

Once you get beyond higher than average IQ there is no more income either. There will be an optimum IQ for highest income earners, which is likely to be above average but not super bright.

I can't find the article about straight forward comparision to income.

 

[FDG]

There will be an optimum IQ for highest income earners, which is likely to be above average but not super bright.

Well, I don't believe this is necessarily true. The marginal increase probably dies out asymptotically, but I don't think that the curve Wealth= f(IQ) is parabolic, more likely some type of logarithmic relationship. As an out-of-reference citation, Bill Gates is supposed to have an IQ of around 170 on the basis of his SAT scores, yet this doesn't seem to have impeded his success much (and since people with 170 as IQ are such a low number, even one occurrence in the top-3 earners of the world is statistically significant).

 

[SciVo]

Alternatively, the confidence interval could widen with increasing IQ; not that it becomes less valuable on average (in the sense that Bill Gates and I are billionaires on average), but that it becomes chancier for the individual.

 

[INTJ123]

Sorry it's not a thing it s principal, so not really worth looking up. Intellengce stops being a factors across the income scale once it gets beyond a certain point. Then it's qualities like leadership, inlfuence, etc.

Intellegence helps with the technical pocess of working it doesn't nessesarily help with office politics...

Physcial appearance comes into it

Do you follow me?

Lis

Yea I get what you mean.

 

[tinkerbell]

Well, I don't believe this is necessarily true. The marginal increase probably dies out asymptotically, but I don't think that the curve Wealth= f(IQ) is parabolic, more likely some type of logarithmic relationship. As an out-of-reference citation, Bill Gates is supposed to have an IQ of around 170 on the basis of his SAT scores, yet this doesn't seem to have impeded his success much (and since people with 170 as IQ are such a low number, even one occurrence in the top-3 earners of the world is statistically significant).

Maybe, but I'm sure I've seen research that says it does but I can't find the link. It's curves the same as the wealth article..,,,

this is on wiki but I've definately seen a research article....

Income
Some researchers claim that "in economic terms it appears that the IQ score measures something with decreasing marginal value. It is important to have enough of it, but having lots and lots does not buy you that much."[73][74]

Other studies show that ability and performance for jobs are linearly related, such that at all IQ levels, an increase in IQ translates into a concomitant increase in performance.[75] Charles Murray, coauthor of The Bell Curve, found that IQ has a substantial effect on income independently of family background.[76]

Intelligence quotient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Taking the above two principles together, very high IQ produces very high job performance, but no greater income than slightly high IQ (and some studies show that very high IQ produces somewhat lower income than slightly high IQ

 

[FDG]

Maybe, but I'm sure I've seen research that says it does but I can't find the link. It's curves the same as the wealth article..,,,

this is on wiki but I've definately seen a research article....

Income
Some researchers claim that "in economic terms it appears that the IQ score measures something with decreasing marginal value. It is important to have enough of it, but having lots and lots does not buy you that much."[73][74]

Other studies show that ability and performance for jobs are linearly related, such that at all IQ levels, an increase in IQ translates into a concomitant increase in performance.[75] Charles Murray, coauthor of The Bell Curve, found that IQ has a substantial effect on income independently of family background.[76]

Intelligence quotient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Taking the above two principles together, very high IQ produces very high job performance, but no greater income than slightly high IQ (and some studies show that very high IQ produces somewhat lower income than slightly high IQ

Yeah, that's what I mean, the marginal effect dies out asymptotically. I still don't think that it makes much sense to say that very high produces lower income, also because the study will very likely contain a small sample of people with very high (let's say above 160?) IQ, unless it was done worldwide...

Alternatively, the confidence interval could widen with increasing IQ; not that it becomes less valuable on average (in the sense that Bill Gates and I are billionaires on average), but that it becomes chancier for the individual.

Mm yeah that's an interesting hypothesis

 

[tinkerbell]

Yeah, that's what I mean, the marginal effect dies out asymptotically. I still don't think that it makes much sense to say that very high produces lower income, also because the study will very likely contain a small sample of people with very high (let's say above 160?) IQ, unless it was done worldwide...

But this assumes that intellegence is the major driver for a higher income and I don't beleive it is. I think there are a lot of softer skills that supersmart people don't have (they get board communicating with normal people).

Also the value system of super intellegent people may be different, they may opt for a job that harnesses their mental ability rather than pays a fortune.

As an ENPT I can say that I have turn down jobs that pay higher amounts because I thought they would be dull and I would get borad very quickly and then change jobs.

 

[INTJ123]

Maybe they just reject the system, but still are forced to live in a society that partakes in it. No debt = No money though, so they end up broke. Chris Langan is wise for becoming a farmer though, in my opinion, I've been having similar urges to become a farmer, as silly as it sounds to some.
[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8&feature=fvw"][YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8&feature=fvw"][/YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

 

[The Decline]

On the other hand, isn't it curious how seemingly stupid people get high power positions?

 

[ceecee]

I've been having similar urges to become a farmer, as silly as it sounds to some.

No not silly. I have the same urges and my family looks at me like From what I have been reading, there is a growing surge in this all over the country and there are many mentoring programs out there to learn the art as well as agriculture programs through university extensions and loans expressly for purchasing land/equipment for new farmers. Look into it.

 

[tinkerbell]

On the other hand, isn't it curious how seemingly stupid people get high power positions?

I'm not nessesarily sure they are stupid... just not super bright, I guess bright enough.

Most people in very senior management seem to be less content... ie they remain driven longer than people who stop before very senior management (not always but a fair few. Obviously there are the odd hero's - young charming types who just to well. The former CEO of McDonald's UK was just delightful - he had technically worked up from being in store (but I figure probably as a manger from univeristy). When I met him he was about 40 and had been in post for about 5 years, used to go to dinner at 10 downing street - really impressive guy. And no he didn't seem super, super bright, but still very intellegent. He was an amazing people person.


As for you guys in who want to do farming, not sure what it is like in the US, but certainly here, farmers don't starve... even if things go horribly wrong like foot and mouth or bad crops etc... they get bailed out by the EEC... which seems a wee bit unfair.

 

[Litvyak]

(You know depression lowers one's IQ results).

WOW. I never knew that...

I've heard over 75% of mensa members work blue collar jobs.

Seems untrue. In our national Mensa, I personally know one (!) blue-collar worker out of 800 members. It's way below 40-50% iirc.
However, the world's most intelligent person (William James Sidis) with an IQ estimated to be around 250-300 lived his last years as a hermit, and finally died as a virgin. He learned one language / day, read the New York Times at the age of 2, invented languages, contributed numerous theories about black holes, and taught professors at the age of 14 as a university graduate. There might be some truth in this.

 

[tinkerbell]

Guys at risk of pointing out what might be obvious.....

Mensa doesn't nessesarily represent all people of high IQ

Many mensa members suffer for massive insecuirties/social anxiety issue - hence the need to join a clever club to make them feel good about themselves (which doesn't equate to all people of high intellegnce). There insecurities may prevent them from becoming sucessful.

I know a former member/organiser who said it was a horrible knocking shop for people who couldn't communicate and would sit around playing intellectual games rather than socalise. He said they really didn't have a clue how to relate in a socail setting. They also indulged in knocking their working life and lack of progression feeling hard done by for not doing well.

Thought I'd chip this in....

Statistics don't always stack up/relate to the real world due to the constains of the world being tested. Ie limited to the profile of the Mensa population - which may be A typical.

Not research per sey but a sociologists take on intellegnece and happiness.

Why Intelligent People Tend To Be Unhappy

 

[onemoretime]

No not silly. I have the same urges and my family looks at me like From what I have been reading, there is a growing surge in this all over the country and there are many mentoring programs out there to learn the art as well as agriculture programs through university extensions and loans expressly for purchasing land/equipment for new farmers. Look into it.

I'm guessing it was a drunk ENTP that came up with the idea of agriculture ("Hey, wouldn't it be great if we could grow a bunch of barley in one place at one time, so we'd have a constant supply of this beer here? We'd also have food, too"), and a sober INTJ hanging around with him (for amusement) that actually made it happen.

 

[onemoretime]

Oh, and what's the common thread of all the jobs mentioned here? They're jobs where you don't have to play politics. Heavily-NT people don't like to play politics a lot, since they obfuscate the right answer.

 

[Valiant]

Being successful while depending on other people who are not in a position under you, the chances are that some dumb person who kiss lots of ass and go with the flow goes further than you do by being rational, honest, crafty and really intelligent.

Sometimes it seems like people are trying to keep more intelligent people from success just because they make the masses seem dumb. In science, this is hard to do. Results are results... When discussing things that leave a lot to the opinion of the person, like history or pedagogy... Well... Let's just say that some people have a hard time accepting defeat, unless you really maul them to death publicly. Never quite met so much resistance as I did when I studied that... But it sure was fun.
Later, I was told that the class of 40+ (with ages varying from 19 to 55) often listened more to me than to the teachers.
I thought it was pretty annoying at the time to have to squeeze points through and into minds that hardly understood what I was talking about without an explanation a square mile large.
Oh... Did I mention that all but one teacher (Old ENFJ dude. Really awesome pedagogy teacher. Huge fan of Socrates.) thought that I was just inhumane, didn't see my points etc? I got average grades. I saw some of the other students' essays and group projects... They sucked pretty badly most of the time... Some of them were just huge spelling errors, and they still scored the same or higher. I just got lowered because I didn't agree with the teacher's opinion on things. Not in the sense that I offended them personally, I just argued against their opinion and laid up a solid defense for my standpoint.
And that's supposed to be at university level...
The worst part though, is when we were discussing the connection between language and intelligence/understanding etc... I said a certain thing one on one with the PhD who was teaching us, he dismissed it with a simple 'no' or something... And then I heard him repeat my exact words to my class the week after...
Sometimes I just want to strangle people for being so... Greedy, subjective and generally awful.

This is what we Scandinavians call the "Jante Law", or "Jantelagen" in Swedish.

The ten rules:


Don't think that you are special.
Don't think that you are of the same standing as us.
Don't think that you are smarter than us.
Don't fancy yourself as being better than us.
Don't think that you know more than us.
Don't think that you are more important than us.
Don't think that you are good at anything.
Don't laugh at us.
Don't think that anyone of us cares about you.
Don't think that you can teach us anything.


That much said, I sometimes wish I were someone of average intelligence with an extreme sports interests that made me generally unaware of knowledge.
With that, I would belong to the "us" part in the above text. The masses.
But... No. I have come to terms with who I am, and that was never meant to be.
I will always stand out and make enemies, but at least I know I have the capacity to beat almost anyone at whatever game they play.

Hm... Guess I needed to rant. Not had one quite as long in some time.