[NT] NTs being too critical.

[Nonsensical]

He probably was getting just an intense T vibe from the people, XSTJs can appear NT in the classroom I've noticed if they participate. That's probably what he was getting at, that it was just a T dominated atmosphere and he felt out of place.

Jesus Christ you people take this shit too far. Honestly, there have only been a few posters that have actually DONE anything in regards to this topic, others have just provoked him and argued just to argue or nitpick when they KNEW the point he was getting at. "Lols he made a sweeping generalization let's jump on him!" Come on, the context was pretty obvious here, that it was just a T dominated classroom with an NT like atmosphere, there's no need for any of this.

I concur.

Thanks man.

 

[Nonsensical]

InaF, why are you still here? I'm honestly extremely curious as to why you've decided you'll disagree with nearly everything that is said here.

Just strikes me as odd that you'd continue to post here even though you probably knew your opinion was a dying hope. Because, honestly, I don't give a fuck what you to say.

 

[SerengetiBetty]

I think some of you are forgetting that the OP said this is for an AP class that means there's a test at the end, the results of which can determine if you need to take the same class all over in college. Although I'm definitely one to question the established canon on dead white dudes in the annals of what's considered great literature, I think any high school AP teacher straying too far from tradition would be doing a disservice to their students.

Yes it's about learning first and foremost but shit, considering in AP classes you are doing sometimes twice the work of your peers in regular classes, students should also be preparing for that test. Get the 4 or 5 to test out of English 101 then work on destroying the canon.

 

[notsweetynice]

I kinda like it when NTs are critical...I'm usually thinking the same thing, but don't because of a desire to be 'nicer'. Yay, for socialization. My relatives used to call me critical growing up..But wait, that would make them critical of my being critical. So they're the critical ones. Yea, that's it.

 

[Nocapszy]

criticism occurs direct proportion with failure.

stop complaining and get to work.

 

[wank]

(text goes here regarding the 75% remark[as well as lol])

As for the issue of others being too critical of the written work given,...
If you want to stop it, become better acquainted with the works that you will be handling than they.
As such case arises again, where there is an obvious root in ego coupled with herd mentality[lol horde], highlight their inadequate understanding(and watch those flys drop into silent discord[or join you in distraction from their failed analysis]).
Further - view this in a positive light, as it raises standard of discussion, and allows better perspective on altering vectors of group communication.

 

[CJ99]

sounds like TJs more than NTs. Yes we have egos but its TJs that tend to be up there own ass in that way.

 

[Amargith]

Onewithsoul, I know how you feel. You loved the book, so you're aching to discuss it with someone and share your enthusiasm about it and go over what was so great about it and instead, you find yourself in a negative environment that just enjoys tearing down everything you throw at them. Hardly the kind of environment that's productive for our type of learning. Also highly frustrating as it is something that would organize your thoughts and feelings about the book and give you more insight, which..is kinda pointless with this group to try.

And the fact that they will probably react that way to everything else you learn or may contribute to the conversation makes them a drag to be around and it's a constant battle to stay positive amongst a bunch of mood-killers like that. I dunno how American schools work, but maybe you can find someone of your temperament in the next year or in other classes to discuss these things with?

I personally did that, when I was in school still. Ignored the self-inflated morons of my class who thought they were so mature in critizising everything and found those few individuals in school who had a positive vibe and disposition towards things so you could actually bounce ideas off of each other without them being predictably discarded instantly just because they feel like discarding shit to feel better about themselves.

Good luck with this, and don't let them ruin the class for you

 

[Kalach]

Nothing to add. Just wanted to say the best book I read in high school was A Clockwork Orange. Picked it out myself from the library. The freaky language was fun. Conversely, the Lit classes were making me read TS Elliot, of which I have retained only the pair of ragged claws quote from The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.

Macbeth, Mockingbird, Grapes of Wrath... read em all. I still like Neuromancer better.

I have trouble with classics. The past times feel of them can be tolerated sometimes, but mostly it feels claustrophobic. I prefer pulp novels. And I'm willing to claim that all major developments in "the novel" appeared first as pulp. (Willing to claim, unwilling to prove, because it's probably not true.)


One NT's perspective.

And if teenaged NTs these days are anything like I was, they don't know anything at all about the F parts of books. Someone making a coherent presentation of that side of things could set them thinking (also probably being mean about it, but perhaps nonetheless thinking).

 

[Amargith]

Maybe so, but what would they provide in return? Head ache and aggrevation?

 

[Kalach]

Or compelling discussion. Ya never know. The classmates might keep up the snotty intellectualism, or they might respect knowledge of things they don't know.

Snotty intellectualism FTW, probably, but who can tell until it's tried?



Silliest thing I ever did in Lit class was get just a little too into the role of Stanley Kowalski. It was an informal reading in class of A Streetcar Named Desire, everyone still in their seats. I read the last lines of the play just before the bell and, Gawd help me, put feeling into them, making Stan's last words--or mine--sound menacing and sexual.

Did I blush? Oh, I blushed. No one said a word.

 

[Amargith]

LOL, well it would appear they were blown away...that must've been adorable though

And perhaps you're right, that they might actually gain something from it and actually let go of their negativity. But for people who do not enjoy conflict or negativity in a discussion..that's a big risk to take, I find. Still, thats for One to judge, whether or not it is worth the risk

Interesting though..usually it's NFs that suggest tolerance and openmindedness, and giving people the benefit of the doubt..and often we're considered naïve for it. Refreshing to see it come from an INTJ..as well is intruiging

 

[INA]

InaF, why are you still here? I'm honestly extremely curious as to why you've decided you'll disagree with nearly everything that is said here.

Just strikes me as odd that you'd continue to post here even though you probably knew your opinion was a dying hope. Because, honestly, I don't give a fuck what you to say.

As a matter of fact, I wasn't . . . Just saw this now. But as you have chosen to address me, I will post again.

Ignoring the factual inaccuracy of the statement re "disagreeing with everything that is said" :rolli: . . .

This thread has made abundantly clear that the problems of close-mindedness and obnoxiousness towards alternate viewpoints are ones you at best share with your classmates or at worst have and are projecting onto your not-so-blameworthy classmates. Your posts here suggest the latter.
Your unreflective and closed-off attitude do not help you. Take a look at yourself. It will do you some good.

 

[runvardh]

OneWithSoul - If you're looking to just piss and moan and get hugs you should be doing it in the NF Private forum. Out here at least expect some questions for clarification so that an understanding can be developed first. Basically whine where it's appropreate or man up...

 

[substitute]

hmm... I know I personally have had a lot of struggles and misunderstandings and unpleasantnesses with ENFP's on the basis that they honestly feel that I'm constantly criticizing them, whilst I feel, just as strongly, that I am not. What I've found most difficult about trying to solve that situation is that, once the ENFP believes I'm critical of them and that I think I'm better than them, they read everything I say in that light, and lose all trust in there being pretty much any goodness in me as a person, so it's almost impossible for me to defend myself or set the record straight, without in fact every word I say only making the situation worse.

I'm sure it looks different from their point of view, and I'd love to be able to listen to them calmly telling me their point of view, but all I seem to get instead is a barrage of accusations and what I strongly feel are very mean spirited twistings of the things I say, to use them as evidence of what an asshole I am.

You know, like I say "I wasn't criticizing you, I didn't mean that as criticism, I meant it as encouragement, I was trying to say things aren't as bad as you think and giving you reasons to hope that you weren't doomed". But they read that as "oh, so you're saying I'm some idiot who complains about things and doesn't do anything about it? some stupid martyr to my own misery? don't you think I've tried everything? you can't ever just believe my summary of things can you, you've always got to cast doubt on my point of view..." etc etc etc

That's obviously a rather extreme example, but it illustrates the general point.

I'm aware that if I tell you that what you're seeing as a class of NT's hating and bitching and criticizing isn't necessarily what it looks like to you, that from the inside of those exchanges, things and intentions and stuff might look very different - there's a possibility that you might see that as me telling you your perceptions are wrong and therefore criticizing you. But there it is, in any case.

 

[INTJ123]

LOL, well it would appear they were blown away...that must've been adorable though

And perhaps you're right, that they might actually gain something from it and actually let go of their negativity. But for people who do not enjoy conflict or negativity in a discussion..that's a big risk to take, I find. Still, thats for One to judge, whether or not it is worth the risk

Interesting though..usually it's NFs that suggest tolerance and openmindedness, and giving people the benefit of the doubt..and often we're considered naïve for it. Refreshing to see it come from an INTJ..as well is intruiging

It's called diplomacy, and why be surprised? NT's are second best at it.

 

[Fluffywolf]

We're good at diplomacy, because we're good at cutting away at peoples arguements, limiting their option when all that is left for them is to save face.

Is that really diplomacy though? I suppose it is.

 

[Amargith]

It's called diplomacy, and why be surprised? NT's are second best at it.

Because he's talking about teenagers. They're not exactly known for diplomacy in the first place and the way he describes them, I'd say they're not really open to the idea of being diplomatic at this point. It seems they're more interested in venting frustration.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I find children are better at dimplomacy than adults. From what I can see happening in the world.

Although admittedly, not really in topic. Just my two cents.

 

[Nonsensical]

Onewithsoul, I know how you feel. You loved the book, so you're aching to discuss it with someone and share your enthusiasm about it and go over what was so great about it and instead, you find yourself in a negative environment that just enjoys tearing down everything you throw at them. Hardly the kind of environment that's productive for our type of learning. Also highly frustrating as it is something that would organize your thoughts and feelings about the book and give you more insight, which..is kinda pointless with this group to try.

And the fact that they will probably react that way to everything else you learn or may contribute to the conversation makes them a drag to be around and it's a constant battle to stay positive amongst a bunch of mood-killers like that. I dunno how American schools work, but maybe you can find someone of your temperament in the next year or in other classes to discuss these things with?

I personally did that, when I was in school still. Ignored the self-inflated morons of my class who thought they were so mature in critizising everything and found those few individuals in school who had a positive vibe and disposition towards things so you could actually bounce ideas off of each other without them being predictably discarded instantly just because they feel like discarding shit to feel better about themselves.

Good luck with this, and don't let them ruin the class for you

This is EXACTLY what I mean. Thank you.

OneWithSoul - If you're looking to just piss and moan and get hugs you should be doing it in the NF Private forum. Out here at least expect some questions for clarification so that an understanding can be developed first. Basically whine where it's appropreate or man up...

I wasn't in the first place, I was just stating a complaint and that it was annoying. Is that such a bad thing? Maybe I should have posted this in the NF Private Forum, but then again, I didn't really think about it. As for pissing and moaning, it is all a result of overly redundant posts accusing me of typing my classmates wrong. It shouldn't matter if my statistics are wrong. There is at least a few in my class room that I am addressing. Try reading over some of the other posts before jumping that boat, my friend.