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[NT] NTs being too critical.

INA

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I'm sorry, but some of y'all need that real talk critical analysis for half-baked ideas. Maybe think em thru a bit before you just let it loose, hmm?

/dodges flying objects

on the other front, I'm sick of people insta-typing people who criticize their opinions as NTs and then launching into "OMG they think they're hot shit" screeds. Maybe the ideas weren't very good to begin with and it doesn't take an NT specifically to call em out.


As someone who was outspoken in High School English class I can tell you that not everybody is out to showboat. Questions and challenges about your thoughts force you to be more coherent and articulate and - dare I say it - more thoughtful. Sometimes I asked questions because of what I found to be a disturbing lack of analysis, not to "look smarter than the teacher." I <3 my teacher, prolly cause she shared my sentiments about not hand-holding when people clearly weren't operating at their best.

/rant.
 

Nonsensical

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Yeah, you're probably not looking at that high a ratio of NTs. Probably a lot of TJs though. I took AP English and I'd say there were maaaybe a couple of other NTs and quite a lot of overachieving SJs. That was the general atmosphere at my school though anyway.

I mean, don't get me wrong, immature NTs can be obnoxious know-it-alls, but we don't have a monopoly on it :D

I see your point, and there, I believe 2 or 3 SJs, but we're talking about a class of 13 other people. I know them all personally, and have known a lot of them to be NTs in the first place. These are the intellectuals of my grade. Not saying SJs can't be intellectual, but it just so happened that these NTs are in my class.

Besides, the point of the thread isn't whether or not they are really NTs.

Guys, the fact is that there ARE NTs in my class. And they ARE criticizing a lot. And it IS annoying.
 

Nonsensical

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Some of you are missing my point. I'm probably not being specific enough.

We were talking about To Kill a Mockingbird, for instance, and it happens to be a book I thoroughly enjoyed. But instead of being able to express this, the discussion came with some boos and groans. They said it was poorly written, and shouldn't be a prized piece of literature as it's plot is ridiculous because it happened to be one of the authors only published works.

I mean...seriously? Are you just saying that because you didn't find it interested? Do they not like to admit something was boring, but find the need to rationalize and use the excuse that it was poorly written to cover up this?
 

Orangey

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You would honestly think I would type people as NT because they are criticizing? Think again. But thanks for the advice- oh...wait.

Oh dear. I don't know you. For all I know, you could well be an idiot. I just thought I'd make sure...no harm in asking, right? Maybe 75% of your class is NT. I don't know. You can't blame people for being suspicious of such percentages when, for a lot of us, we were lucky (or not) to have known 2 or 3 in our entire graduating classes.

As to advice...um, why do you care if they are critical of their teachers and some authors? Is it affecting your learning experience? If it is, I'd suggest talking to your teacher about it so that he/she could put a tighter reign on the types of discussions you guys have. Otherwise, what is the problem? Are they overly critical of what you have to say or something? Do they make you feel insecure? If that is the case, the problem is with you and not them.
 

Nonsensical

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Well, you're a teenager. No offense, but being an idiot is part of the package and I'm speaking with experience lol.

A wise decision.

You know..that is probably one of the best pieces of advice I've gotten here.

And thanks.
 

Brendan

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Some of you are missing my point. I'm probably not being specific enough.

We were talking about To Kill a Mockingbird, for instance, and it happens to be a book I thoroughly enjoyed. But instead of being able to express this, the discussion came with some boos and groans. They said it was poorly written, and shouldn't be a prized piece of literature as it's plot is ridiculous because it happened to be one of the authors only published works.

I mean...seriously? Are you just saying that because you didn't find it interested? Do they not like to admit something was boring, but find the need to rationalize and use the excuse that it was poorly written to cover up this?
I've never read the book, but NT, NF, SP or SJ, it's very hard to relate to the reading material given in high school because... Well, because you're in high school.

I'm willing to wager a lot of them will come to appreciate the book later in life.
 

cafe

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I think it's nice that the kids that are probably frustrated on a lot of levels, have a place where they can talk about these things without reprisal, whatever their types might be.

We sort of do this fairly frequently at my house mostly because it's . . . fun. But we are INTP, INFj, INTJ, INFP, E?TJ, and I?TP and a bunch of intellectually arrogant snobs plopped down on the edge NASCAR country.
 

Nonsensical

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Oh dear. I don't know you. For all I know, you could well be an idiot. I just thought I'd make sure...no harm in asking, right? Maybe 75% of your class is NT. I don't know. You can't blame people for being suspicious of such percentages when, for a lot of us, we were lucky (or not) to have known 2 or 3 in our entire graduating classes.

As to advice...um, why do you care if they are critical of their teachers and some authors? Is it affecting your learning experience? If it is, I'd suggest talking to your teacher about it so that he/she could put a tighter reign on the types of discussions you guys have. Otherwise, what is the problem? Are they overly critical of what you have to say or something? Do they make you feel insecure? If that is the case, the problem is with you and not them.

No, I am not an idiot. but that is my opinion.

No harm done, thanks.

You're right, you don't know whose in my class.

I don't care. I find it annoying.

It is not effecting my learning experience, but is kind of a little intimidating.

They intimidate me.

They don't make me feel insecure, it is annoying. But if feeling insecure goes along with intimidation, then yes.

You're right.
 

Lethe

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But for those who offered advice, you are completely right. I mean..it is like me to really care about things like this, but it has gotten pretty annoying. I mean..we're juniors in high school, and these kids think they are at the top of the intellectual books. Like they want to argue and criticize because it makes them feel better about themselves, and gives them courage.

edit: and a part of it is discouraging. I feel like a fucking idiot in front of them. but I'd rather be discouraged than overzealous. Maybe.

Yes, who wouldn't dream of knocking someone off their high horse once in awhile? ;) Estimate your opponents and their debating style before you take them on -- it will give a clearer indication of the ammunition you would need for a successful battle. Personally, I believe it's considerably helpful to know what you don't know than to have an unsupported pride in your abilities. And also be vigilant about becoming too passionate in 'winning' the debate. It will distract you from focusing on what needs to be done.
 

Nonsensical

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I've never read the book, but NT, NF, SP or SJ, it's very hard to relate to the reading material given in high school because... Well, because you're in high school.

I'm willing to wager a lot of them will come to appreciate the book later in life.

I think it deserves a little bit more reverence. Making racial jokes about the book and ranting on how poorly written it was (which is an opinion) is not just stemmed from a lack of understanding, but more as a display of ignorance.

I agree.
 

tinkerbell

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You know it's the first day of a new school.. NTs get feircely picky when they are on edge (there comfort zone is likely to be thrashing the life out of stuff)...

even if they all know each other it's a new exprience for them and there is likely to be a certain change in group dynamics so there is liable to be Alpha male issues going on... who did pee up the wall the highest..

To Kill a Mokingbird rocked... I've read it several times, just because it was a sole publication doens't mean to say it wasn't outstanding...

If they continue to be a pain in the comming weeks use it as a learign experience to develop courage to express your opinion strongly.... it could work out to be a great confidence booster to your ability to cut through their crap

Good luck

PS - Nt's usually sound firmer in thier views - they want to and need to be argued with in order to broaden their perspective - it's the whole dialectal thing...
 

Nonsensical

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Yes, who wouldn't dream of knocking someone off their high horse once in awhile? ;) Estimate your opponents and their debating style before you take them on -- it will give a clearer indication of the ammunition you would need for a successful battle. Personally, I believe it's considerably helpful to know what you don't know than to have an unsupported pride in your abilities. And also be vigilant about becoming too passionate in 'winning' the debate. It will distract you from focusing on what needs to be done.

Yes, I would much like that. :)

I think you are absolutely right. I do need to challenge them, or ignore them, instead of bitching about it.
 

INA

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Some of them are probably ISTJs. There were quite a few in my class.
Seriously, that makes sense given supposed type distribution and, less so, the nature of the critique described, but I'm sure NTs don't have a lock on arrogance or a critical nature.

If the criticism is useless, chime in and say so, deliver it with that oh-so-diplomatic :rolli: NF flair: "that's kind of irrelevant to the interpretation," for example. They're giving it; they can take it, too. If the criticism is out of bounds the teacher needs to assert his/her authority and steer the discussion where it needs to go.
 

Lethe

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Some of you are missing my point. I'm probably not being specific enough.

We were talking about To Kill a Mockingbird, for instance, and it happens to be a book I thoroughly enjoyed. But instead of being able to express this, the discussion came with some boos and groans. They said it was poorly written, and shouldn't be a prized piece of literature as it's plot is ridiculous because it happened to be one of the authors only published works.

I mean...seriously? Are you just saying that because you didn't find it interested? Do they not like to admit something was boring, but find the need to rationalize and use the excuse that it was poorly written to cover up this?

Ask them for their complete analysis on the novel and what they would define as "well written work". Then tackle/question their arguments one by one.

By the way, To Kill A Mockingbird is my all time favorite novel. ;)

PS: Wish I was there with you. I love debating! :devil:
 

Nonsensical

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You know it's the first day of a new school.. NTs get feircely picky when they are on edge (there comfort zone is likely to be thrashing the life out of stuff)...

even if they all know each other it's a new exprience for them and there is likely to be a certain change in group dynamics so there is liable to be Alpha male issues going on... who did pee up the wall the highest..

To Kill a Mokingbird rocked... I've read it several times, just because it was a sole publication doens't mean to say it wasn't outstanding...

If they continue to be a pain in the comming weeks use it as a learign experience to develop courage to express your opinion strongly.... it could work out to be a great confidence booster to your ability to cut through their crap

Good luck

PS - Nt's usually sound firmer in thier views - they want to and need to be argued with in order to broaden their perspective - it's the whole dialectal thing...

Yeah, but it isn't the first day of a new school. We were all in the same class together sophomore year for Honors English.

I loved To Kill a Mockingbird, it is definitely something that a lot of people could find inspiring.

I want to turn it into a learning experience. That's apart of the whole grand experience.

Thanks. :)
 

Nonsensical

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Ask them for their complete analysis on the novel and what they would define as "well written work". Then tackle/question their arguments one by one.

By the way, To Kill A Mockingbird is my all time favorite novel. ;)

Heh. I really should. Asking them which books they actually do like and why would be interesting.
 

SerengetiBetty

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I don't understand how them not liking the book or criticizing it in any way affects how you like it.

What's so hard about coming back with your own opinions about the book and expressing them in class. I seriously doubt they're gonna jump you after class - unless the AP kids have drastically changed since I was one - and even if they do, it's nothing that a tube sock stuffed with rolls of quarters can't handle....

and besides that, if they are really NTs, especially ENTPs, how can you be sure they aren't being contrary and critical just for the sake of keeping the class interesting or for the sake of keeping themselves entertained?
 
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