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  1. #71
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Oh, don't judge a book by its cover.

    If you don't like people stereotyping NT's as critical make a threat about how NF's are too sensitive.
    I know better than that.
    This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating instead of addressing the problem sensibly.

    Once he had hastily drawn his scapegoat, he wasted energy lambasting this creation, working himself up into a frenzy instead of stepping back to think:
    1. hey, these guys are jerks, no NT ways about it. There's nothing "NT" about trashing a book you're studying without taking more than a cursory look at it, or lacking insight into the human mind :rolli:. And there's nothing NT about slinging racial slurs around. This is BS.
    2. Maybe I should should prepare my thoughts so I can respond well to useful criticism. That way I can get better at this and perhaps make them think
    3. Maybe the teacher needs to get in control of a class of rowdy, cocky teenagers who sideline discussion with useless criticism
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  2. #72
    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I wasn't asserting that you were baiting him.

    It is a legit question, but much like the questions and comments of his classmates, it misses the point.
    there are many themes and topics that individuals can take from an experience, and literature is no different. the idea that a book is only about *one thing* is ridiculous, especially since there's going to be as many interpretations as there are readers. this is why people can read literature from various viewpoints (ie feminism, deconstructionism, marxism, etc ) find all kind of things to support their viewpoint.

    i think the assumption the OP made is that we would immediately understand the point, just based on the limited and seemingly subjective data we were given. If that's how the OP discusses things in the lit class AND the class is comprised largely of NTs I can see where problems would come in .I think many NTs would find it very very difficult to bite their tongues and not rip that point to shreds.

    Of course it sucks that the OP now dreads going to class, but honestly I would say get used to that stuff now, especially if you want to go on to college and graduate work. Learning how to coherently back up your ideas when your 15/16 is greatly beneficial when you're working on a doctoral thesis years later.
    Last edited by SerengetiBetty; 09-03-2009 at 06:37 PM. Reason: for clarity

  3. #73
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    I know better than that.
    This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating.
    Wrong again. The point of this thread would be the same, whether or not NT had even been mentioned.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  4. #74
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Yes, a few.

    [Back to the topic: As long as the person can solidly support their position (while remaining attentive to the novel's time period and genre), then they have some validity to their case. However, these opinions sound like they were derived from a 21st century arrogance.]
    A lot of English lit teachers act like every line of any literature by someone in the curriculum is gold. Why are we expected to work with this assumption without proof?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #75
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    They don't sound terribly intellectual to me.
    This is high school, so I'm speaking comparatively.

    I just know that I have an INTJ daughter in AP classes and she's totally capable, being allowed to speak freely, of ripping all manner of things and people apart for entertainment purposes. It's more an expression of frustration and a release from that frustration than it is something that should be taken to heart, even if the people doing the venting believe they are being perfectly rational, etc.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #76
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Wrong again. The point of this thread would be the same, whether or not NT had even been mentioned.
    Keep up here: my response was not about the point of the thread, it was this comment of yours:

    If you don't like people stereotyping NT's as critical
    Many of us have stated precisely that his problem isn't about NTs.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. #77
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerengetiBetty View Post
    i think the assumption the OP made is that we would immediately understand the point, just based on the limited and seemingly subjective data we were given. If that's how the OP discusses things in the lit class AND the class is comprised largely of NTs I can see where problems would come in .I think many NTs would it very very difficult to bite their tongues and not rip that point to shreds.
    *Shrug* He's a teenager, give 'im some slack.

    And if he's anything like this NFP, he bit his tongue in class, which is why he still had plenty of steam to put into the OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Keep up here: my response was not about the point of the thread, it was this comment of yours:



    Many of us have stated precisely that his problem isn't about NTs.
    Yeah.

    I guess I was distracted by your rude and obnoxious tone.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  8. #78
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    A lot of English lit teachers act like every line of any literature by someone in the curriculum is gold. Why are we expected to work with this assumption without proof?
    You shouldn't, and I would question their assumptions immediately. If they are not willing to consider your arguments, then they are not worth any student's time. Isn't their purpose is to guide their students into understanding the subject? (Of course, some do not sufficiently fulfill this category.)
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
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  9. #79
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I guess I was distracted by your rude and obnoxious tone.
    Oh? This:
    I know better than [to start a thread complaining about NFs' being oversensitive].
    This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating.
    was rude and obnoxious?

    Let me borrow some of your kind of obnoxiousness:
    "wrong again"

    I'm not even going to bother dissecting the "again" part of your comment.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #80
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    I know better than that.
    This is not about stereotyping as much as it is blind and willful scapegoating instead of addressing the problem sensibly.

    Once he had hastily drawn his scapegoat, he wasted energy lambasting this creation, working himself up into a frenzy instead of stepping back to think:
    1. hey, these guys are jerks, no NT ways about it. There's nothing "NT" about trashing a book you're studying without taking more than a cursory look at it, or lacking insight into the human mind :rolli:. And there's nothing NT about slinging racial slurs around. This is BS.
    2. Maybe I should should prepare my thoughts so I can respond well to useful criticism. That way I can get better at this and perhaps make them think
    3. Maybe the teacher needs to get in control of a class of rowdy, cocky teenagers who sideline discussion with useless criticism
    He probably was getting just an intense T vibe from the people, XSTJs can appear NT in the classroom I've noticed if they participate. That's probably what he was getting at, that it was just a T dominated atmosphere and he felt out of place.

    Jesus Christ you people take this shit too far. Honestly, there have only been a few posters that have actually DONE anything in regards to this topic, others have just provoked him and argued just to argue or nitpick when they KNEW the point he was getting at. "Lols he made a sweeping generalization let's jump on him!" Come on, the context was pretty obvious here, that it was just a T dominated classroom with an NT like atmosphere, there's no need for any of this.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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