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  1. #31
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I've never read the book, but NT, NF, SP or SJ, it's very hard to relate to the reading material given in high school because... Well, because you're in high school.

    I'm willing to wager a lot of them will come to appreciate the book later in life.
    I think it deserves a little bit more reverence. Making racial jokes about the book and ranting on how poorly written it was (which is an opinion) is not just stemmed from a lack of understanding, but more as a display of ignorance.

    I agree.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  2. #32
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    You know it's the first day of a new school.. NTs get feircely picky when they are on edge (there comfort zone is likely to be thrashing the life out of stuff)...

    even if they all know each other it's a new exprience for them and there is likely to be a certain change in group dynamics so there is liable to be Alpha male issues going on... who did pee up the wall the highest..

    To Kill a Mokingbird rocked... I've read it several times, just because it was a sole publication doens't mean to say it wasn't outstanding...

    If they continue to be a pain in the comming weeks use it as a learign experience to develop courage to express your opinion strongly.... it could work out to be a great confidence booster to your ability to cut through their crap

    Good luck

    PS - Nt's usually sound firmer in thier views - they want to and need to be argued with in order to broaden their perspective - it's the whole dialectal thing...

  3. #33
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Yes, who wouldn't dream of knocking someone off their high horse once in awhile? Estimate your opponents and their debating style before you take them on -- it will give a clearer indication of the ammunition you would need for a successful battle. Personally, I believe it's considerably helpful to know what you don't know than to have an unsupported pride in your abilities. And also be vigilant about becoming too passionate in 'winning' the debate. It will distract you from focusing on what needs to be done.
    Yes, I would much like that.

    I think you are absolutely right. I do need to challenge them, or ignore them, instead of bitching about it.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  4. #34
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Some of them are probably ISTJs. There were quite a few in my class.
    Seriously, that makes sense given supposed type distribution and, less so, the nature of the critique described, but I'm sure NTs don't have a lock on arrogance or a critical nature.

    If the criticism is useless, chime in and say so, deliver it with that oh-so-diplomatic :rolli: NF flair: "that's kind of irrelevant to the interpretation," for example. They're giving it; they can take it, too. If the criticism is out of bounds the teacher needs to assert his/her authority and steer the discussion where it needs to go.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  5. #35
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Some of you are missing my point. I'm probably not being specific enough.

    We were talking about To Kill a Mockingbird, for instance, and it happens to be a book I thoroughly enjoyed. But instead of being able to express this, the discussion came with some boos and groans. They said it was poorly written, and shouldn't be a prized piece of literature as it's plot is ridiculous because it happened to be one of the authors only published works.

    I mean...seriously? Are you just saying that because you didn't find it interested? Do they not like to admit something was boring, but find the need to rationalize and use the excuse that it was poorly written to cover up this?
    Ask them for their complete analysis on the novel and what they would define as "well written work". Then tackle/question their arguments one by one.

    By the way, To Kill A Mockingbird is my all time favorite novel.

    PS: Wish I was there with you. I love debating!
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    You know it's the first day of a new school.. NTs get feircely picky when they are on edge (there comfort zone is likely to be thrashing the life out of stuff)...

    even if they all know each other it's a new exprience for them and there is likely to be a certain change in group dynamics so there is liable to be Alpha male issues going on... who did pee up the wall the highest..

    To Kill a Mokingbird rocked... I've read it several times, just because it was a sole publication doens't mean to say it wasn't outstanding...

    If they continue to be a pain in the comming weeks use it as a learign experience to develop courage to express your opinion strongly.... it could work out to be a great confidence booster to your ability to cut through their crap

    Good luck

    PS - Nt's usually sound firmer in thier views - they want to and need to be argued with in order to broaden their perspective - it's the whole dialectal thing...
    Yeah, but it isn't the first day of a new school. We were all in the same class together sophomore year for Honors English.

    I loved To Kill a Mockingbird, it is definitely something that a lot of people could find inspiring.

    I want to turn it into a learning experience. That's apart of the whole grand experience.

    Thanks.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  7. #37
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Ask them for their complete analysis on the novel and what they would define as "well written work". Then tackle/question their arguments one by one.

    By the way, To Kill A Mockingbird is my all time favorite novel.
    Heh. I really should. Asking them which books they actually do like and why would be interesting.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  8. #38
    Senior Member SerengetiBetty's Avatar
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    I don't understand how them not liking the book or criticizing it in any way affects how you like it.

    What's so hard about coming back with your own opinions about the book and expressing them in class. I seriously doubt they're gonna jump you after class - unless the AP kids have drastically changed since I was one - and even if they do, it's nothing that a tube sock stuffed with rolls of quarters can't handle....

    and besides that, if they are really NTs, especially ENTPs, how can you be sure they aren't being contrary and critical just for the sake of keeping the class interesting or for the sake of keeping themselves entertained?
    Last edited by SerengetiBetty; 09-03-2009 at 05:43 PM. Reason: added comment

  9. #39
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post


    Some of them are probably ISTJs. There were quite a few in my class.
    No.

    Stop assuming things when you don't know.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  10. #40
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Heh. I really should. Asking them which books they actually do like and why would be interesting.
    Sounds good.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

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