[ENTP] You crazy ENTPs!

[tinkerbell]

I said that I had thought he probably had emotional unstability. And not because his language is abstract but because he's sometimes too quick to take offense at something, get frustrated and eventually angry, all starting with something that seems small.

Again HUGELY insulting to your firend...

You'd not take it well if I assused you of being mentally unstable..

Hi langauge is abstract because he is an NT.... NFs also use abstract language... S types use concrete (I'm sure it is that way round)

 

[stellar renegade]

the idea that ENTP's don't struggle with their extraversion is ludicrous in light of the number of threads on this board devoted to ENTP's who've taken a long time to realise that they were not INTP's, because as children/teens and even young adults, they've been very insecure and socially anxious, and struggled to socialise successfully despite feeling driven to do so.

Interestingly enough, I found this:

Keirsey's Fieldmarshal Rational is not inherently "extroverted" very much, and the Inventor Rational is even less. For example, General George C. Marshall (a Fieldmarshal) and Nicola Tesla (an Inventor) would not be very good examples of the "typical" Extrovert -- they were not gregarious in the least. Sure, most Fieldmarshals and Inventors can be "gregarious" or "not shy", in fact they can be sometimes overbearing or steamrolling in their opinions. They are usually pretty friendly at parties and open to people to some extent. Although they don't have to be. Moreover, if Fieldmarshal is finding a particular person "boring" (and that can be in a few seconds) he quickly will find any excuse to exit the scene very quickly or if he finds utility in it, he can rake the person over the conceptual coals, so to make sure that person realizes he is not considered worthwhile. So the Fieldmarshal is an "extrovert" with a purpose (they are pragmatic -- their sociability is often contingent). Sometimes that purpose can be very narrow, such that the common notion of "extrovert" is not well suited for the Fieldmarshal. Same is true with the Inventor. The Inventor often appears like an Artisan Promoter, always interested in having an "interesting" time. Only the difference is the Inventor is "looking" for new experiences, new ideas, or some way to promote his ideas, so those who don't help in this endeavor are quickly cast off. That is, the Inventor is an "extrovert" with an interest (outer-directed might be a better term), and that specific interest often being so narrow that the term "extrovert" is misleading. Although in casual acquaintance they appear to be "extroverted."

From here.

 

[tinkerbell]

Originally Posted by Katsuni

And quite possibly some blame from people she grew up with. I bet it's a repressed childhood thing. *Blows bubbles from pipe to look really smart* Except I actually kind of mean it, the whole NT female thing, growing up is often a long list of people thinking yeu're broken and trying to 'fix' yeu. The ENTP's especially don't have it any better either. So yeah... think yeu're getting more than just a little hostility that isn't really directed at yeu, and yeu just happen to be the current target available.
."

Kat - I've sent the last 3 years working for an ENTJ who insisted one argue the case all the way through.... V dialectal... I'm still arguing with him over science v's fairies...

 

[stellar renegade]

You suggested he had NPD - which is a mental illness,.....and no it's not funny in any way....

When did I ever imply it was funny?

Thats probably because he doesn't understand he is debating without emotions and you are taking umberance.... He doens't know why.... He was just saying the XY is implusable...

You mean "with emotions"?

This is an area you are almost always going to haved to cut him some slack over, because I doubt he is going to ge pink and fluffy over night.

I wasn't upset that he gets surprised over it. Not everything I've said about him is something I'm upset about.

Thats my point, you beleive it's easier for him to change than it is for you to change... the basic premis for your thinking is wrong.

Focus on being more tollerant and understaning of him... if you constantly tell him he is not doing what you expect he will react badly - same as you would to him.

Okay, but not getting stirred up over something is more of an NT trait. Are you telling me to acquiesce because it's easier for me to be more cool-headed and rational (and therefore more NT) about his bluntness?

Now you didn't say he was doing this... simply tell him what I'm telling you. He needs to work at not fixing you and check himself out.... Don't do his diagnosis of what is wrong for him, and don't let him do it too you... but you don't need to be nasty about it... calm and rationally put.

I doubt that'd illicit a good response, but I'll try to figure out some way to go about it.

Again you are suggesting he change for you.... PLEASE TELL EE YOU DON'T DO THIS SHIT TO YOUR GIRLFREINDS....

Oh God. Are you serious? To just ask someone to be a little more tactful is trying to change who they are? That's so silly.

Frankly I don't love you enough to even contemplate changing for you....

haha. You'll change your mind I'm sure, babe.

I wouldn't either if I was on the receiving end of what you have described, you can hardly blame him for that.

So you'd get frustrated at me for not getting something complex you were saying? Great.

He doesn't know how to communicate in non abstract fashion, sometimes his ideas will not transfer back into concrete langauge, you need to deal with the gap between your coms style and his... it may never be bridged...

You can look at practicing understanidng the abstract thought as easily as he can practice communicatng in Concrete...

An analogy... A frenchman walks into a pub and is ecosted by an Englishman, The englishman asks the time... the Frnechman says he doens't speak English...

> who is to blame?

Neither. But if the Englishman got irritated at the Frenchman and said it should be simple for him to understand English, then I'd say the Englishman would need to be more understanding, wouldn't you?

IT's not about your mental ability it's about aptitued to understand ideasl

And the difference is...?

would probably be helpful rather than screaming "you keep taking french to me"... you own half the problem

I don't scream at him. I don't get where you get that I am screaming at him. Is this your incredible power of assumption generating operating again? I never get angry at him for saying something I don't understand. I ask him to explain in a different way and he gets irritated. So if anything, it's the other way around.

But feel free to misrepresent the situation yet once again.

I'm almost through with this thread. You are making this a much bigger deal than it is and stringing it out into an argument between us even though my friend and I typically get along for the most part. We rarely get into arguments anymore, and our frustrations might be somewhat frequent but are minor and don't last too long now.

 

[tinkerbell]

OK -lets park the NPD/mental illness thing, I think you got this yesterday and I think you get it now... it's insulting and hurtful etc... snuff said..

Okay, but not getting stirred up over something is more of an NT trait. Are you telling me to acquiesce because it's easier for me to be more cool-headed and rational (and therefore more NT) about his bluntness?

No not that.

it is easeir for you to change yourself/your approach/your tactics, than it is for you to influence actual change in someone else... especally when that someone comes from a slightly different universe....

EXAMPLE If he talks to you about something which he is just talking about... and you get all upset and start arguing with him... he gets all bewildered...

Isn't it easier for you to apprecaite that he isn't communicating with emotions... he hasn't seen it has upset you.

IF you want to feed back to him.... State that what he was saying was quite hurful and made you feel like XYZ.... did he mean that...... "and give your take on it"- chances are he will be horrified. Main thing is not to make him feel attacked

do you get that if he doesn't understand that he has said anything that you are taking offense too and you then argue with him.. he would be bewildered about where that has come from.. he may not being picking up your upset ques while he is talking... This is when he is doing it unconsiously... when he is deliberately riding you use the bit I suggested before about explaining that you don't need fixing... etc...

I doubt that'd illicit a good response, but I'll try to figure out some way to go about it.

I doubt it too, but unless you are telling him that you don't apprecaite him telling you to change - then it will piss you off... you then geting snippy with him and he then gets offended... Be patient with this - you are changing your style of approach to facilitate a different outcome than usual (AKAN to get him to reduce and stop the incidents that he does this)

Oh God. Are you serious? To just ask someone to be a little more tactful is trying to change who they are? That's so silly.

But you are not just asking him to be more tactful, you are critical of his abitites to explain, telling him he is over emotional, etc etc... read the last 5 pages of what you are asking for him... REALLY you've not just been asking him to be more a wee bit more tactful at all.

haha. You'll change your mind I'm sure, babe.

so you think

So you'd get frustrated at me for not getting something complex you were saying? Great.

What would bug me is not your not getting the concept, but blaming me for it, when you own the comprehension side of the discussion... It was interesting in your last post - was your question about "should I get him to draw me diagrams" - YES - it will help you understand and reduce his frustration I'm sure.... the more ways you can think about lowering the gap and helping you understand what is in his head the less frustrating it will be for him.

Neither.

YES I agree they are both to blame/have ownership

But if the Englishman got irritated at the Frenchman and said it should be simple for him to understand English, then I'd say the Englishman would need to be more understanding, wouldn't you?

No that is my point - the Englishman needs to calm down and realise its his fault for not speaking French, and make efforts to learn... and the Frenchman needs to make some effort to learn Enlgish... The onus is on the one who is irritated to move more than half way across that gap

And the difference is...?

Massive difference.... mental ability/intellect is about your ability to perform intellectually..... be able to solve problems, spacial awareness etc... you could have an IQ150 and still be sufferening form the same issue with your freind.. he is talking abstractly - which isn't about using big words or having a quick brain (ENTPs are quick)


He can use simple lanuge to explain an idea... an example would be a general moving toy soldiers around a tiny battel field in his office to explain the strategy in a war - this is the communication of an abstract idea - in simple to understand terms....

Get him to use visuals, get him do physical things like the general - make it real for you - your brain simply can recreate a battle field in your head without simulus - thats the main difference with abstract thinkiers...

Your screwed if his ideas are massively technical, but asking questions gently about how he would explain that idea to a 8 year old - gives him practice of communication of ideas, and you the opportunity to show and interest...

I don't scream at him. I don't get where you get that I am screaming at him. Is this your incredible power of assumption generating operating again?

I never said you screamed at him (it was the frnech guy you were hypotetically screaming at).. but you are telling him he needs to change, rather than taking the onus on yourself..

But feel free to misrepresent the situation yet once again.

YAWN you've miss read the post

PS don't automatically asume because he has a quick brain and uses an abstract communication style that he is more intellegent than you are.... He might be, but not nessesarily. Speed doens't equal rightness.... He explains stuff in the way he thinks - see my next post for a bad communication style... and the one after for a good communication style.... there are lots of ways you can help yourself understand his ideas better... just need to figure out what works for you that he can do

 

[tinkerbell]

An example of communication not designed to explain something... this is taken from the UK tax site and is unliekly to be easy to comprehend

How the DTC treats US partnerships and LLCs
Article 1(8) of the DTC provides that

'An item of income, profit or gain derived through a person that is fiscally transparent under the laws of either Contracting State shall be considered to be derived by a resident of a Contracting State to the extent that the item is treated for the purposes of the taxation law of such Contracting State as the income, profit or gain of a resident.'

A transparent concern itself is therefore not given the right to found a claim for relief.

Instead, that right is given individually to those 'qualifying persons' defined by the General Definitions Article 3; and as further qualified by the Limitation on Benefits Article 27, who have derived their beneficial entitlement to income, profit or gain through their participation in the transparent concern. (It will be noted that this is not so very different from the situation that obtained under Article 4(1)(b)(i) of the 'old' 1980 DTC.)

What this would mean for partners and LLC members
Strictly speaking, HMRC Residency should accept claims only from those partners and members who themselves fall to be regarded as 'qualifying persons' in their own right.

In practice, this would mean as many separate claims for one item of UK-source income paid to a transparent concern such as a partnership or LLC as there are beneficial owners to whom it is then being paid on or distributed.

HMRC Residency recognises that applying the DTC provisions in such a literal way would be unwelcome to its customers and could possibly hamper the business interests of both countries. It would be a retrograde step in customer service terms, and would not be justified on either an assessment of risk to the UK Exchequer or on compliance grounds. HMRC Residency wants to keep a proper balance between the ease with which US residents should be able to claim relief with the administrative procedures and paperwork that must be employed by the UK Revenue to verify and give effect to such a claim.

 

[tinkerbell]

An example of clear communication style

Recipe
Serves: 8

Cooking and preparation
Preparations time: 10 minutes
Cooking time: 20 minutes
Ingredients
knob of butter, melted
225g/8oz butter, softened
225g/8oz caster sugar
4 large free-range eggs
225g/8oz self-raising flour, sifted (you may need a bit extra)
For the filling
6 tbsp good-quality strawberry jam
300ml/10½ fl oz double cream, lightly whipped
To serve
icing sugar, for dusting
You'll need two 15cm-17.5cm/6in-7in cake tins
Top
Method
1. Preheat the oven to 180C/350F/Gas 4.

2. Gently heat the knob of butter in a pan and brush two 6in-7in/15cm-17.5cm cake tins with the melted butter. Line the bottom of the two cake tins with a circle of greaseproof paper.

3. In a large bowl, cream together the butter and sugar until pale and creamy, using an electric whisk or a wooden spoon. Beat well to get lots of air into the mixture (this should take a couple of minutes).

4. Beat in the eggs one at a time. Add a tablespoon of flour if the mixture curdles.

5. Fold in the flour using a large metal spoon. Be careful not to over-mix it.

6. Pour the mixture equally between the two cake tins and level off the top with a spatula. Make a slight dip in the centre with the tip of the spatula if you don't want them to be pointed in the middle.

7. Place in the oven and bake for about 20 minutes, or until the cakes spring back when pressed gently with a finger and are pale golden in colour.

8. Remove from the oven and take them out of the tins after about 5-10 minutes. Place them on a wire rack to cool completely (for about half an hour).

9. Spread the sponge with the jam and the whipped cream, then carefully sandwich together.

10. Dust with icing sugar and serve.

 

[tinkerbell]

both are aimed at non technical experts, adults with average intellegence.... the second one is aimed to communicate easily to the maximum possible number of people...

At the end of one - you may have understood a little bit about creating a tax return, the other you will make a victoria sponge...


Both are abstract concepts right now...

Neither ought to require massive intellect.... (unforutunately the first one may feel as if it does)

The second one could just as easily be a proces to conduct a medical proceedure (as an industry they need to communicate clearly in order to prevent accidents)

It's not about brains, it's about communication

 

[stellar renegade]

No not that.

it is easeir for you to change yourself/your approach/your tactics, than it is for you to influence actual change in someone else... especally when that someone comes from a slightly different universe....

I just don't want to let him steamroll over me is all.

EXAMPLE If he talks to you about something which he is just talking about... and you get all upset and start arguing with him... he gets all bewildered...

Isn't it easier for you to apprecaite that he isn't communicating with emotions... he hasn't seen it has upset you.

Well I kinda misstated the case, when I said he was surprised it's more he gets upset that I'm getting more upset than he feels I should be. And it's hard for me to appreciate it because I sense the irritation in his voice.

IF you want to feed back to him.... State that what he was saying was quite hurful and made you feel like XYZ.... did he mean that...... "and give your take on it"- chances are he will be horrified. Main thing is not to make him feel attacked

do you get that if he doesn't understand that he has said anything that you are taking offense too and you then argue with him.. he would be bewildered about where that has come from.. he may not being picking up your upset ques while he is talking... This is when he is doing it unconsiously... when he is deliberately riding you use the bit I suggested before about explaining that you don't need fixing... etc...

That makes sense, I'm bad about being thorough and explaining the way something made me feel. That's something I can definitely work on.

I doubt it too, but unless you are telling him that you don't apprecaite him telling you to change - then it will piss you off... you then geting snippy with him and he then gets offended... Be patient with this - you are changing your style of approach to facilitate a different outcome than usual (AKAN to get him to reduce and stop the incidents that he does this)

Yeah.

But you are not just asking him to be more tactful, you are critical of his abitites to explain, telling him he is over emotional, etc etc... read the last 5 pages of what you are asking for him... REALLY you've not just been asking him to be more a wee bit more tactful at all.

I'm not critical of his abilities to explain, I just tell him I don't understand what he's saying. From time to time I have told him that he was getting too emotional about something. I'm concerned for him, though. Really all I can do is ask him to change his approach.

What would bug me is not your not getting the concept, but blaming me for it, when you own the comprehension side of the discussion...

Okay, but I don't blame him for it...

It was interesting in your last post - was your question about "should I get him to draw me diagrams" - YES - it will help you understand and reduce his frustration I'm sure.... the more ways you can think about lowering the gap and helping you understand what is in his head the less frustrating it will be for him.

Not in the moment, though. I should probably sit him down sometime and explain how literally and visually my mind works.

No that is my point - the Englishman needs to calm down and realise its his fault for not speaking French, and make efforts to learn... and the Frenchman needs to make some effort to learn Enlgish... The onus is on the one who is irritated to move more than half way across that gap

So it would be him in this case?

Massive difference.... mental ability/intellect is about your ability to perform intellectually..... be able to solve problems, spacial awareness etc... you could have an IQ150 and still be sufferening form the same issue with your freind.. he is talking abstractly - which isn't about using big words or having a quick brain (ENTPs are quick)

Okay, that's true. But I was just talking about grasping complex concepts.

He can use simple lanuge to explain an idea... an example would be a general moving toy soldiers around a tiny battel field in his office to explain the strategy in a war - this is the communication of an abstract idea - in simple to understand terms....

Get him to use visuals, get him do physical things like the general - make it real for you - your brain simply can recreate a battle field in your head without simulus - thats the main difference with abstract thinkiers...

Your screwed if his ideas are massively technical, but asking questions gently about how he would explain that idea to a 8 year old - gives him practice of communication of ideas, and you the opportunity to show and interest...

I can ask him to show me. I'll see how well that works.

 

[Thalassa]

Ok BPD is almost always women, so your freind is very unlikely to have this.

That isn't true. Men can have borderline personality disorder. Plenty of men have it.

 

[tinkerbell]

That isn't true. Men can have borderline personality disorder. Plenty of men have it.

much less frequently... not impossible thought... I said it was unlikely... I didn't say impossible....

2% population incidence - so a TINY population in the first place....

75% of them are women....

Borderline Personality Disorder Facts

 

[tinkerbell]

STELLER

YEA!! I think I've finally managed to get what I mean over to you.

I agree don't let him walk over you (and you stop trying to balme issues on him)... if he is being offensive tell him (gently) what is bugging you in a non accusatory style....

Rather than start that right now... next time you feel he is walking all over you take it home and think of how you would phrase a non acusatory responce - keep it emotionally nutral - so it may be something along these lines.... "I'm sorry but you've just said XYZ, which I find personally offensive, it make me think you bleive I'm stupid" You might want to cusion it with "I don't beleive that is what you intended if that is the case can you please stop"


OK it's a bit stilted, but with practice you can become better at challening him in a non threatening way.... Chances are he will double take the first time you push back, and gradually get use to you doing it after you do it consistantly....

When you would normally ask him to explain his ideas, park the thought and ask him to explain it to you in the pub/over lunch etc... giving his ideas reverence will win big points with him... it will give you a chance to explore the idea and get it... some of them might be far out at time, but in a relaxed atmospher you've a better chance of getting the idea..

I know this has been a bit of a labor - probably the N - S gap again...

Good luck

L

 

[Thalassa]

much less frequently...

That's a myth. There's a saying that women with bpd are in therapy and men with bpd are in jail.

Anyone who comes from an abused childhood with the right circumstances for personality dysfunction can have bpd. Women are just more likely to report instances of physical and sexual abuse, and men are more likely to be diagnosed as having a substance abuse problem, narcissism, etc.

 

[tinkerbell]

That's a myth. There's a saying that women with bpd are in therapy and men with bpd are in jail.

Anyone who comes from an abused childhood with the right circumstances for personality dysfunction can have bpd. Women are just more likely to report instances of physical and sexual abuse, and men are more likely to be diagnosed as having a substance abuse problem, narcissism, etc.

Sorry I edited the post and put in the stats


2% population incidence - so a TINY population in the first place....

75% of them are women....

Borderline Personality Disorder Facts

It's not just about sexual abuse... there is more too it

 

[Thalassa]

Sorry I edited the post and put in the stats


2% population incidence - so a TINY population in the first place....

75% of them are women....

Borderline Personality Disorder Facts

It's not just about sexual abuse... there is more too it

Did you totally miss what I just said about women being more likely to report physical and sexual abuse? Or about women being in therapy and men being in jail? The second part is a bit of a hyperbole, but the implications are clear that women are simply diagnosed as such more frequently, and that the incident isn't nearly as disproportional and some people believe.

 

[tinkerbell]

Did you totally miss what I just said about women being more likely to report physical and sexual abuse? Or about women being in therapy and men being in jail? The second part is a bit of a hyperbole, but the implications are clear that women are simply diagnosed as such more frequently, and that the incident isn't nearly as disproportional and some people believe.

Doesn't mean they have BPD... feel free to email the society and challenge their assumption.

I appreciate that men may manefest differently, but I'm basing my thinking on the reported statistics.... you may very well have a good point... but I'll base my thinking on pubished stats... once those stats change then I'll work with those.. otherwise I'd be basing my thinkng on the girl down the pub perspective...

 

[Thalassa]

Doesn't mean they have BPD... feel free to email the society and challenge their assumption.

I appreciate that men may manefest differently, but I'm basing my thinking on the reported statistics.... you may very well have a good point... but I'll base my thinking on pubished stats... once those stats change then I'll work with those.. otherwise I'd be basing my thinkng on the girl down the pub perspective...

I understand that you're basing your opinion on public stats, and I am basing my opinion on documented psychiatric speculation to the contrary. There are actually several disputes in the field of personality disorder where, histrionic disorder, for example is attributed to females and antisocial personality disorder is attributed to males, when in fact the basis may be sheerly sexist and based upon cultural attitudes and behaviors of "masculine" and "feminine."

I don't have to challenge their assumption because professional people in the field are already doing just that. It isn't just my own pet theory.

I was also challenging the notion that you said it was highly unlikely for his friend to have bpd...even if we take your stats of 25% his friend could very well likely fall into that small group. Neither of you are in a position to make such a judgement, so it should neither be cast nor completely ruled out.

I will agree to disagree with you, but also guide you here:

Clinicians are biased. Studies have shown that mental health professionals tend to diagnose BPD more often in women than men, even when patient profiles are identical except for the gender of the patient.


Men seek psychiatric help less often.

Men are more likely to be treated only for their alcoholism or substance abuse; their borderline symptoms go unnoticed because BPD is assumed to be a woman's disorder.

Female borderlines are in the mental health system; male borderlines are in jail.




BPD Central - borderline personality disorder resources - basics

 

[stellar renegade]

STELLER

YEA!! I think I've finally managed to get what I mean over to you.

I agree don't let him walk over you (and you stop trying to balme issues on him)... if he is being offensive tell him (gently) what is bugging you in a non accusatory style....

Rather than start that right now... next time you feel he is walking all over you take it home and think of how you would phrase a non acusatory responce - keep it emotionally nutral - so it may be something along these lines.... "I'm sorry but you've just said XYZ, which I find personally offensive, it make me think you bleive I'm stupid" You might want to cusion it with "I don't beleive that is what you intended if that is the case can you please stop"


OK it's a bit stilted, but with practice you can become better at challening him in a non threatening way.... Chances are he will double take the first time you push back, and gradually get use to you doing it after you do it consistantly....

When you would normally ask him to explain his ideas, park the thought and ask him to explain it to you in the pub/over lunch etc... giving his ideas reverence will win big points with him... it will give you a chance to explore the idea and get it... some of them might be far out at time, but in a relaxed atmospher you've a better chance of getting the idea..

I know this has been a bit of a labor - probably the N - S gap again...

Good luck

L

Thanks, I'm glad we worked through it.

I've responded that way before, I'm just not in the habit of it. He definitely responds much better that way.

Appreciate you taking the time to make yourself clear!

Later.

 

[tinkerbell]

Marmalde

The gender stats coupled with the the speculation being based on the internet clinical symptoms led me to doubt his aptitude of the OP as a practitioner of medical health ....

I've based it on low penetration low propensity based on current established benchmarks... if they are changing then all well and good... once

But right now couple the "I've read the internet" and him being a bloke dose sound unlikely that he has the condition... and sounds infinately more like a pygmailon project...

There has been several posts/threads of late - by non NT types saying NT's or ENTPs have this type of mental disorder or that one......

some of the ENTPs were reported to be badly behaved (often with multiple citations of them basically behaving like a normal ENTP on top of bad behaviour). But bad behaviour doesn't = a mental health issue, and it is offensive to suggest thing unless you have a heap of evidence to support it.

It's very easy for non professionals to look at a list of clinical features are see perfectly normal behaviours listed (which in the presentation of illness are extreme), and pick that condition and then tell other people they are insane...
They usually show themselves up as being uneducated, intollerant and unflexible at understanding people who are marginal in the population.

PS - being in jail doens;t exclude methal health diagnosis - in this country at least....

Sorry you've caught me on a soap box this week ... I'll shut up

 

[Thalassa]

Marmalde

The gender stats coupled with the the speculation being based on the internet clinical symptoms led me to doubt his aptitude of the OP as a practitioner of medical health ....

I've based it on low penetration low propensity based on current established benchmarks... if they are changing then all well and good... once

But right now couple the "I've read the internet" and him being a bloke dose sound unlikely that he has the condition... and sounds infinately more like a pygmailon project...

There has been several posts/threads of late - by non NT types saying NT's or ENTPs have this type of mental disorder or that one......

some of the ENTPs were reported to be badly behaved (often with multiple citations of them basically behaving like a normal ENTP on top of bad behaviour). But bad behaviour doesn't = a mental health issue, and it is offensive to suggest thing unless you have a heap of evidence to support it.

It's very easy for non professionals to look at a list of clinical features are see perfectly normal behaviours listed (which in the presentation of illness are extreme), and pick that condition and then tell other people they are insane...
They usually show themselves up as being uneducated, intollerant and unflexible at understanding people who are marginal in the population.

PS - being in jail doens;t exclude methal health diagnosis - in this country at least....

Sorry you've caught me on a soap box this week ... I'll shut up

Being in jail excludes mental health diagnosis in this country to a large degree, and that should certainly be taken into account.


But anyway...INFPs are accused of being mentally ill or damaged all of the time, or that "fucked up people" mistype as INFP. There was a thread that even suggested that INFPs and INFJs both come from some sort of emotionally abusive environment.

So this isn't just about ENTPs, and you certainly shouldn't take it personally.