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  1. #71
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    That isn't true. Men can have borderline personality disorder. Plenty of men have it.
    much less frequently... not impossible thought... I said it was unlikely... I didn't say impossible....

    2% population incidence - so a TINY population in the first place....

    75% of them are women....

    Borderline Personality Disorder Facts

  2. #72
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    STELLER

    YEA!! I think I've finally managed to get what I mean over to you.

    I agree don't let him walk over you (and you stop trying to balme issues on him)... if he is being offensive tell him (gently) what is bugging you in a non accusatory style....

    Rather than start that right now... next time you feel he is walking all over you take it home and think of how you would phrase a non acusatory responce - keep it emotionally nutral - so it may be something along these lines.... "I'm sorry but you've just said XYZ, which I find personally offensive, it make me think you bleive I'm stupid" You might want to cusion it with "I don't beleive that is what you intended if that is the case can you please stop"


    OK it's a bit stilted, but with practice you can become better at challening him in a non threatening way.... Chances are he will double take the first time you push back, and gradually get use to you doing it after you do it consistantly....

    When you would normally ask him to explain his ideas, park the thought and ask him to explain it to you in the pub/over lunch etc... giving his ideas reverence will win big points with him... it will give you a chance to explore the idea and get it... some of them might be far out at time, but in a relaxed atmospher you've a better chance of getting the idea..

    I know this has been a bit of a labor - probably the N - S gap again...

    Good luck

    L

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    much less frequently...
    That's a myth. There's a saying that women with bpd are in therapy and men with bpd are in jail.

    Anyone who comes from an abused childhood with the right circumstances for personality dysfunction can have bpd. Women are just more likely to report instances of physical and sexual abuse, and men are more likely to be diagnosed as having a substance abuse problem, narcissism, etc.

  4. #74
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    That's a myth. There's a saying that women with bpd are in therapy and men with bpd are in jail.

    Anyone who comes from an abused childhood with the right circumstances for personality dysfunction can have bpd. Women are just more likely to report instances of physical and sexual abuse, and men are more likely to be diagnosed as having a substance abuse problem, narcissism, etc.
    Sorry I edited the post and put in the stats


    2% population incidence - so a TINY population in the first place....

    75% of them are women....

    Borderline Personality Disorder Facts

    It's not just about sexual abuse... there is more too it

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Sorry I edited the post and put in the stats


    2% population incidence - so a TINY population in the first place....

    75% of them are women....

    Borderline Personality Disorder Facts

    It's not just about sexual abuse... there is more too it
    Did you totally miss what I just said about women being more likely to report physical and sexual abuse? Or about women being in therapy and men being in jail? The second part is a bit of a hyperbole, but the implications are clear that women are simply diagnosed as such more frequently, and that the incident isn't nearly as disproportional and some people believe.

  6. #76
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Did you totally miss what I just said about women being more likely to report physical and sexual abuse? Or about women being in therapy and men being in jail? The second part is a bit of a hyperbole, but the implications are clear that women are simply diagnosed as such more frequently, and that the incident isn't nearly as disproportional and some people believe.
    Doesn't mean they have BPD... feel free to email the society and challenge their assumption.

    I appreciate that men may manefest differently, but I'm basing my thinking on the reported statistics.... you may very well have a good point... but I'll base my thinking on pubished stats... once those stats change then I'll work with those.. otherwise I'd be basing my thinkng on the girl down the pub perspective...

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Doesn't mean they have BPD... feel free to email the society and challenge their assumption.

    I appreciate that men may manefest differently, but I'm basing my thinking on the reported statistics.... you may very well have a good point... but I'll base my thinking on pubished stats... once those stats change then I'll work with those.. otherwise I'd be basing my thinkng on the girl down the pub perspective...

    I understand that you're basing your opinion on public stats, and I am basing my opinion on documented psychiatric speculation to the contrary. There are actually several disputes in the field of personality disorder where, histrionic disorder, for example is attributed to females and antisocial personality disorder is attributed to males, when in fact the basis may be sheerly sexist and based upon cultural attitudes and behaviors of "masculine" and "feminine."

    I don't have to challenge their assumption because professional people in the field are already doing just that. It isn't just my own pet theory.

    I was also challenging the notion that you said it was highly unlikely for his friend to have bpd...even if we take your stats of 25% his friend could very well likely fall into that small group. Neither of you are in a position to make such a judgement, so it should neither be cast nor completely ruled out.

    I will agree to disagree with you, but also guide you here:

    Clinicians are biased. Studies have shown that mental health professionals tend to diagnose BPD more often in women than men, even when patient profiles are identical except for the gender of the patient.


    Men seek psychiatric help less often.

    Men are more likely to be treated only for their alcoholism or substance abuse; their borderline symptoms go unnoticed because BPD is assumed to be a woman's disorder.

    Female borderlines are in the mental health system; male borderlines are in jail.




    BPD Central - borderline personality disorder resources - basics

  8. #78
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    STELLER

    YEA!! I think I've finally managed to get what I mean over to you.

    I agree don't let him walk over you (and you stop trying to balme issues on him)... if he is being offensive tell him (gently) what is bugging you in a non accusatory style....

    Rather than start that right now... next time you feel he is walking all over you take it home and think of how you would phrase a non acusatory responce - keep it emotionally nutral - so it may be something along these lines.... "I'm sorry but you've just said XYZ, which I find personally offensive, it make me think you bleive I'm stupid" You might want to cusion it with "I don't beleive that is what you intended if that is the case can you please stop"


    OK it's a bit stilted, but with practice you can become better at challening him in a non threatening way.... Chances are he will double take the first time you push back, and gradually get use to you doing it after you do it consistantly....

    When you would normally ask him to explain his ideas, park the thought and ask him to explain it to you in the pub/over lunch etc... giving his ideas reverence will win big points with him... it will give you a chance to explore the idea and get it... some of them might be far out at time, but in a relaxed atmospher you've a better chance of getting the idea..

    I know this has been a bit of a labor - probably the N - S gap again...

    Good luck

    L
    Thanks, I'm glad we worked through it.

    I've responded that way before, I'm just not in the habit of it. He definitely responds much better that way.

    Appreciate you taking the time to make yourself clear!

    Later.
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    coo-oo-ooool this madness down,
    stop it right on tiiiiime!


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  9. #79
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Marmalde

    The gender stats coupled with the the speculation being based on the internet clinical symptoms led me to doubt his aptitude of the OP as a practitioner of medical health ....

    I've based it on low penetration low propensity based on current established benchmarks... if they are changing then all well and good... once

    But right now couple the "I've read the internet" and him being a bloke dose sound unlikely that he has the condition... and sounds infinately more like a pygmailon project...

    There has been several posts/threads of late - by non NT types saying NT's or ENTPs have this type of mental disorder or that one......

    some of the ENTPs were reported to be badly behaved (often with multiple citations of them basically behaving like a normal ENTP on top of bad behaviour). But bad behaviour doesn't = a mental health issue, and it is offensive to suggest thing unless you have a heap of evidence to support it.

    It's very easy for non professionals to look at a list of clinical features are see perfectly normal behaviours listed (which in the presentation of illness are extreme), and pick that condition and then tell other people they are insane...
    They usually show themselves up as being uneducated, intollerant and unflexible at understanding people who are marginal in the population.

    PS - being in jail doens;t exclude methal health diagnosis - in this country at least....

    Sorry you've caught me on a soap box this week ... I'll shut up

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Marmalde

    The gender stats coupled with the the speculation being based on the internet clinical symptoms led me to doubt his aptitude of the OP as a practitioner of medical health ....

    I've based it on low penetration low propensity based on current established benchmarks... if they are changing then all well and good... once

    But right now couple the "I've read the internet" and him being a bloke dose sound unlikely that he has the condition... and sounds infinately more like a pygmailon project...

    There has been several posts/threads of late - by non NT types saying NT's or ENTPs have this type of mental disorder or that one......

    some of the ENTPs were reported to be badly behaved (often with multiple citations of them basically behaving like a normal ENTP on top of bad behaviour). But bad behaviour doesn't = a mental health issue, and it is offensive to suggest thing unless you have a heap of evidence to support it.

    It's very easy for non professionals to look at a list of clinical features are see perfectly normal behaviours listed (which in the presentation of illness are extreme), and pick that condition and then tell other people they are insane...
    They usually show themselves up as being uneducated, intollerant and unflexible at understanding people who are marginal in the population.

    PS - being in jail doens;t exclude methal health diagnosis - in this country at least....

    Sorry you've caught me on a soap box this week ... I'll shut up

    Being in jail excludes mental health diagnosis in this country to a large degree, and that should certainly be taken into account.


    But anyway...INFPs are accused of being mentally ill or damaged all of the time, or that "fucked up people" mistype as INFP. There was a thread that even suggested that INFPs and INFJs both come from some sort of emotionally abusive environment.

    So this isn't just about ENTPs, and you certainly shouldn't take it personally.

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