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View Poll Results: NT's used alternative medicine.....?

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  • Accupuncture

    9 33.33%
  • Accupressure

    6 22.22%
  • Homoeopathy

    2 7.41%
  • Herbal - pills/tinctures

    13 48.15%
  • Reki

    2 7.41%
  • Faith healing

    3 11.11%
  • Hypnotisim

    1 3.70%
  • Chiropractice

    7 25.93%
  • Osteopathy

    0 0%
  • Auro soma (colour therapy)

    1 3.70%
  • Traditional Chinese Medicine (non accupuncture)

    5 18.52%
  • Crystals

    0 0%
  • Flower remedies

    1 3.70%
  • Reflexology

    1 3.70%
  • Rebirthing

    0 0%
  • Past Life Regression

    1 3.70%
  • Aroma therapy

    4 14.81%
  • Hypnotherapy

    3 11.11%
  • NLP

    4 14.81%
  • Other..... on the thread

    5 18.52%
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Results 41 to 50 of 53

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    hes easy on the eye... I'm all better now mommy
    Alternative medicine folks are always marketing their good looks and exuberance to help 'sell' their product. That alone makes me wary. And then they hypocritically accuse the conventional medical establishment of being just about business and not health.

  2. #42
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notsweetynice View Post
    Alternative medicine folks are always marketing their good looks and exuberance to help 'sell' their product. That alone makes me wary. And then they hypocritically accuse the conventional medical establishment of being just about business and not health.
    This is just marketing not alternative health related per sey... if you are selling a house you point out it's good features. A car - it's speed... it's marketing the good bits.

    I beleive in the US the claim about medicine being busines isn't too far a streach from reality... but then the alternatives are also in business just smaller businesses....

  3. #43
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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  4. #44
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Hi

    I listend to both vdeos... But I'm not convinced by anything the speaker says...

    Yes homepoathy is significantly diluted - which seems to be his issue (he goes on about it long enough)... I'll come back to that.. The OD on the lable is clearly a legislative issue not to do with the homeopathis.

    But looking at the impact of substanctes actively on well people then using that substance to treat people is strangely fairly normal western medicine development techneques...

    Diluting a substant to treat people again standard medical practice - its how inocculations are made.. So again sounds funny and well articulated but... not really unusual in medicine devleopment per sey..

    I'm not advocating homeopathy - I know a bit about it and have taken a remedy once, but not really tried it in practice.

    The issue with homeopathy is the scale of the dilusion. That is it such micro levels of the substance... I do know that substances in the home can impact a person, even with tiny amounts of contact... it's not totally implausable to me that these teeny tiny levels don't have a bigger impact than a big does... why so? because the more support you give something the less likely the something will beave independantly... You can train your eyes not to be short sighted... but if you wear glasses or contacts you are providing external support making your eye muscles even weaker... if you follow me. Teeny tiny doeses of medicine are given the body may still react (it only takes one virus cell to multiply when the bodies imune system is down for your to catch and illness)

    Hence I can't dispell homeopathy because I don't buy that science is all that good at measuring when it comes to medicine... Science is still relatively young therefore these remedies could be having an impact that science can't measure YET... its not sensitive enough

    I'm not totally anti science, just understand that a neagative responce can be one of two problems - something doesn't work, or the measurment tool is faulty.. Scientists do like to over look the latter...

    I work in market research - I live with the second issue most days.... not asked enough questions in an area that would be useful... not being able to research something because the research can't get there... that type of thing...

    So thanks for the video link but they are just amsuing and you may be horrified if you knew how much was true of normal medicne you wouldn't think twice about taking.
    The ingredient manufacturers claim that makes the homeopathic product work, technically doesn't even exist in the substance because it has been diluted to a point where sometimes it is equivalent to a drop in the ocean, or a drop in the solar system if it were an ocean.

    I know the speaker in the video is acting like a smug, belligerent old fart, which is annoying, but the logic is sound. "Normal" medicine, which is a different matter, could be made from arsenic and it wouldn't make homeopathy legitimate. People who get well after taking homeopathy are experiencing what is known as the placebo effect. Which can be demonstrated under controlled conditions to work with sugar pills or any other substance the patient is convinced works.

  5. #45
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Old fart is right...

    I know right now it appears the dilusion is so tiny it can't possibly be effective... but maybe in 50 years time, Western medicine will realise that they have been seriously over dosing people - its a constrain of science at this moment in time.

    I don't think we know all there is to know how tiny contacts with thing impact us...

    Like I said I'm not into homeopathy, but still keeping an open mind...

    Yes I know about placebo effects and maybe that is what H patients experience... but to be honest with you they wanted to outcome of being better - even if it was possitive thought that made them well I wouldn't care .....

    Controlled conditions are totally limited by our ability to measure... It's not so long ago science could see viruses or endocrines... doesn't mean they don't exsist...

    Seriously I'm not pro H... but I am skeptical of science which is limited to what is measurable/proovable today. And Science does damn things because it's not measurable rather than keeping open minds because of sciences' limits...

    Accupuncture works, it's not placebo - its effects are measurable in a variety of blind conteolled experiments - yes Science can't explain WHY it works... there is no such thing as energy meridians in western medicine...

    does this make sense...

    I do appreciate that science is the best way right now to establish efficasy... but it is flawed..

    Thanks for the links thought.. he was a ildly entertaining old fart.

  6. #46
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    I hear homeopathy is pretty mainstream in the UK (where you are from, or where you currently live?) and even real physicians recommend it. Never heard of that here in the States, but they do prescribe amphetamines to children, so I'm not going to make any claims of moral or logical superiority lol.

  7. #47
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwar View Post
    I hear homeopathy is pretty mainstream in the UK (where you are from, or where you currently live?) and even real physicians recommend it. Never heard of that here in the States, but they do prescribe amphetamines to children, so I'm not going to make any claims of moral or logical superiority lol.
    Not REALLY... there are possibly more of them... these days there appears to be Traditional Chinese medicine places on most high strees though... so accupuncture is pretty big.

    Edinburgh originally - London now....

    Physicians have really opened their minds up a lot to the possibilites of alternative medicine... many are studying some as a hobby. Not sure if Homeopathy is that big...

    The US prescribing ADD meds FEAKS me out - I have to say I was horrofied when I was in a US supermarket to see how much coulorants are are in food... eeek no wonder kids aren't healthy. I have issues about prescription medication to kids without significant problems being obvious... it appears tha much of the population are popping pills.... much less likely in the UK where medication is paid, in part by the state...

  8. #48
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I "buy" anything that can be shown to work. That is, shown in some other way than testimonials in evangelical sales pitches, magazines and commercials.

    For example, I dismiss a lot of homeopathy because when I looked into the science of it, it was clearly hogwash. But there are some things it's hit on, such as using arnica for bruising, which are proven to work, so those I accept.

    An awful lot of it seems to me quite obviously charlatans preying on desperate and anxious people who haven't the education to know any better, and based on ridiculous superstitions just as bad as anything you'll find in a medieval guide to how to make someone fall in love with you by picking bay leaves under a full moon with a silver knife and placing them under your pillow with incantations, etc etc, and the fact that an awful lot of these "medicines" retail at a much higher price than their production costs justify only confirms that assessment to me.

    But by the same token, there are some things in mainstream medical/health practice, which are indeed scientifically proven to work, but are nonetheless unnecessary and have little to do with a person's actual health, and which rely on conning people into thinking that something completely natural and normal about them is in fact a sign of malfunction or worrying imperfection that they must do something about.

    For example: people paying a fortune for braces on their teeth because there's like, one or two teeth slightly out of alignment, which they do because the idea that it's necessary in order to not be "ugly" has completely permeated popular culture. And some of these vitamin/mineral pills that address mainly women's carefully manufactured anxiety about not being sparkly, shiny, wax-dolly perfect enough to attract a mate and avoid a life of terminal loneliness.

    And the psychology field's just as bad an offender as the rest, conveniently labelling just about any natural, inevitable or non-compliant or freethinking behaviour as one dysfunction or syndrome or disorder or another, for which the patient conveniently has to go to expensive consultations and pay for drugs in order to "fix" themselves. I'm talking about for example, a guy who gets pushed into anger management classes and put on drugs to control his temper which, he's told, is his problem and a flaw in his personality, because he's responded as any healthy person would to being treated unfairly or living with poor circumstances and being repressed by people "above" him. He's steadily convinced by teams of specialist marketers (that's really what they are) that just talking to his friends and thinking things through isn't enough - he needs to see someone qualified to dictate to him what he should do about his problems and how he should see his life.The company that's making him work like a dog for low pay gets an atmosphere of hushed compliance and employees who're convinced it's morally wrong somehow, to object to their "superiors", whilst the shrinks get big fat wads of cash to pour into their BMW's.

    The whole area of health and medicine is so screwed up, all I can do is decide not to put anything in my body or allow any tinkering with my mind unless it can be conclusively proven to me that it's necessary and beneficial.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    LOL Sub...

    You hear of fungal nail infection? It's a condition that basiclly yellows your toe nails a bit and can thicken them. The treatment is to paint a substance on the nail every day for a year...

    The condition itself was unharmful, no adverse effects appart from the symptoms above. Originally the treatment was prescription only - Docs hated to prescribe it.

    I try and not get on meds if I can

    I see no one has identified "earthing" as an alternative...

    which is when you run out into garden/feel and start to dig up the earth frantically untill you in darker soil and then you plant your hand in the earth and let all the tension out.

    Sounds totally bonkers, but you know, I do think there might be something in it... I think the experieince would be very releiving....

  10. #50
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    The US prescribing ADD meds FEAKS me out - I have to say I was horrofied when I was in a US supermarket to see how much coulorants are are in food... eeek no wonder kids aren't healthy. I have issues about prescription medication to kids without significant problems being obvious... it appears tha much of the population are popping pills.... much less likely in the UK where medication is paid, in part by the state...
    I never noticed any effect from ritalin myself, was only on it for a few years and literally saw zero difference, but it was a subjective perspective obviously too.

    I agree though that people are getting far too heavily into a "throw medicine at it!" mentality. Antibiotics are especially guilty of this... gawd I'm so sick of commercials with the "Kills 99.9% of bacteria!" Yeah but we need a good chunk of that bacteria, and the 0.1% yeu DIDN'T kill is the stuff that's resistant to the antibiotic... so when it multiplies itself 1000X over in a few days, now yeu're back up to 100%, except now they're all the ones that were resistant to the antibiotic used. Do this repeatedly, over and over, and yeu're no longer playing with natural selection, but controlled selection. With the ridiculously short lifespans of bacteria and viruses, it doesn't take long to go through a few genetic generations quickly. If yeu continually apply pressure to ensure only a single type makes it out alive each time, yeu just guarantee it thrives >.>

    And hence we're stuck with the so called 'superbugs', though admittedly most of those were developed in places or locations where someone just doesn't take the full dose of medicine prescribed. Yeu know that thing where the instructions say KEEP TAKING THIS EVEN IF YEU HAVE NO SYMPTOMS? Yeah, that part means if yeu don't kill it 100%, yeu're just letting them repopulate. The worst case of obvious superbug was caused because of giving inadequate prescriptions to inmates at a russian jail... give them half the prescription, but don't finish treatment because it's expencive, and great work, now everyone's boned due to it >.>;;

    The thing people don't realize is we really don't have more than one 'real' antibacterial to work with right now. There's variations on a theme, but they are all based off the original penicilin since each subsequently discovered one is more dangerous than the bacteria it treats. Soooo we're stuck with variations on a theme.

    In any case, the whole "throw drugs at it" mentality is also in large part due to several issues:

    A: Patients demand them, even if they won't help. Doctors give a prescription anyway even if they know it's pointless (WTF antibiotics for a COLD!? It has zero effect! It's not caused by bacteria! )

    B: Doctors getting paid for prescriptions given. Yeah this's a great idea. I think we're all aware of the generic joke about a car repairman drilling a hole in the oilpan while fixing the car so they have an excuse to charge more. Comming up with plausible, but untruthful diagnosiseses (just pretend I know how to spell that in plural) can mean adding lots of medications... often which can conflict and turn quite bad since some medicines don't react nicely. Go ahead, toss pure sodium into water, neither's dangerous on their own, but they have a nice little party when they get togeather >.<

    C: Way too much emphasis being placed on 'cures'. People refuse to even think of the possibility that something may not be physically possible to cure by some wonder drug. We have never even come remotely close to curing the common cold, and yet we expect a pill to crush cancer or AIDS? Yeaaaah, let's just go on believing that... I mean there ARE cures, but they tend to, yeu know, kill the patient. People just don't seem to grasp the concept that not everything can be magically wished away by medicine, due to it being ridiculously complex in its' interactions. Science can learn effects of various things, and how they interplay with each other... however, some things literally don't work in such a way that it's easy or (possibly) even possible to counteract in a way that won't kill the patient or cause worse issues indirectly than the original problem itself.

    D: An extension upon C; people in general seem to see science as "the new magic". "Magic cures" being a great description of that... sure we go well yeah it's based in scientific fact! Yeah but uhm... yeu're still expecting for it to magically cure stuff >.> Most every medicine, especially the newer ones for some really nasty ailments, can have excessive lists of side effects... because they work by screwing up the body's chemistry to make it inhospitable to whot it's supposed to combat, or it has to have a very specific set of things to occur to cause the desired reaction, but this can also mean that in order to cause that reaction, it may be forced to cause other reactions which're not desired. There literally just isn't a 'magical' counter to everything... yeu won't find a naturally occuring virus which eats AIDS as it's preferred diet, that has no interest in anything else. (though oddly enough there is actually a virus which does this to cancer... that's still undergoing research though). In any case, doctors can only make use of technology and chemical reactions to incite particular desired reactions... and it's not magic, it happens for a reason, which virtually never really has the reaction itself as the primary effect, quite often the beneficial effect is just a random side effect that occurs because of a set of other factors. But yeah, stop pretending science is magic, we don't get a "cure disease" spell at level 16 that works on everything.





    But anyways, I think the largest annoyance, is how it's culturally insisted upon that things should work this way. The "find a cure to cancer!" advertisements on tv are just great... yeah, a magical cure with no side effects, that will cure every cancer type, no matter whot. Unfortunately, cancer is just a generic term to cover thousands of genetic problems when the DNA of a cell is damaged in multiple ways, including the self destruct instructions for when it's damaged. To actually cause cancer is very difficult, for any one case of cancer, there were a near infinite number of cell divisions with minor damage that properly terminated, or were corrected normally. But yeah, finding a 'cure' is a ridiculous fairy tale... we're not going to find something that specifically cures every single type of cancer with no side effects... we *HAVE* cures that will kill cancer, but they have some nasty side effects, and in some types of cancer, they are not survivable to the patient. The trick of finding something that will cause the reaction yeu want, without tooooo overly bad side effects is a shot in the dark often. Yet the term 'cure' it thrown around like it's magic, that yeu can apply it to all cases and it will magically make it go away with no ill effects.

    This kind of wording and implication to the masses is just plain dangerous, by breeding ridiculous expectations which could never be truly met. We've seriously just got to stop the abusive use of the word 'cure'.

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