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    Default Defeatism created by INTP type description

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJT View Post
    I'm going to go as far as I can go. Surely a Masters and maybe a Ph.D if possible. It really depends on money and patience. I have a really hard time focusing on the work I need to do with the INTP mind of mine. I wonder off too much and I'm quite lazy.
    from another thread.

    I find myself thinking this way from time to time and I hate it. I never thought like that before I heard about MBTI or the "Knows All, Does Nothing" stereotype of the INTP.

    I implore people to please, please, be careful when learning about MBTI -- it can be detremental to your well-being.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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    The tendency is real enough, but there's no reason for us to play straight into it.

    To be successful at life (or to at least grow as people), at some point we have to start projecting ourselves into the outer world.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The tendency is real enough, but there's no reason for us to play straight into it.

    To be successful at life (or to at least grow as people), at some point we have to start projecting ourselves into the outer world.
    What I'm getting at is that it is self-defeating (in terms of projecting ourselves in to the outer world) if we believe we have some special handicap that makes it hard to do things.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Prompted by



    from another thread.

    I find myself thinking this way from time to time and I hate it. I never thought like that before I heard about MBTI or the "Knows All, Does Nothing" stereotype of the INTP.

    I implore people to please, please, be careful when learning about MBTI -- it can be detremental to your well-being.
    LOL. Since I prompted this thread and the subsequent comments on the MBTI typing system, let me share my feelings (GASP!!!).

    The MBTI typing system is an interesting system because is presents somewhat of a pseudoscience we can employ to understand what makes us tick. It is applicable to many interpersonal and private happengings and helps us better understand them. The MBTI typing system can be dangerous when applied too often or taken too literally. It can also be dangerous when people modify their behavior in order to align themselves with what MBTI says they might be. I fully believe MBTI should be taken at face value and only be applied to anecdotal evidence after the fact. I don't ever use MBTI as guide lines for life, doing so is dangerous. I'd even go so far as to say that typing other people is dangerous. I think one might be more inclined to change their behavior in response to a type they hold reservations for, even if the people in question have no specific knowledge of each other. Interactions with people should be felt and though out while the interaction is going on. Making decisions from a distance, hell even making decisions based on MBTI isn't something I think should be done.

    Now, my previous statement is not an example of me shaping my behaviors to align with an INTPs characteristic laziness. I'm naturally lazy and somewhat unmotivated. I was this way before I ever heard about MBTI, I knew I was this way before MBTI and I'm probably going to stay this way for a long time. The reason I am choosing to stop my education before I reach the Ph.D stage is because I want to move on to a job and apply the knowledge I am gaining. Defeat isn't in my vocabulary, I just want change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I implore people to please, please, be careful when learning about MBTI -- it can be detremental to your well-being.
    I kind of know what you mean. I read the type on INFJ and I thought, "I'm suppose to be some sort of psychic or mystic? I should be able to read people's hidden motives and psychological processes like a book?" I've tried in the past and have made a huge ass out of myself by making mountains out of mole hills. Heck, I feel embarrassed for others when they try because it just isn't that way. Before the MBTI I would have never been so silly as to even imagine that I was somehow so intuitive that I could read minds.

    The way I see it, INFJs are just good at seeing things from more than one perspective and picking up how a person is feeling and that sometimes gives them an edge in understanding what a person might be thinking. Often for me that isn't a good thing because it can create full blown paranoia. Another thing that wasn't helped by the "NFJs are prone to picking up the worst case scenario" stereotype. For example, I sometimes create situations in my head where people hate me, are making fun of me behind my back, or are even out to get me, when that just isn't the case. I sometimes wonder how much of my behavior was prompted by the test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What I'm getting at is that it is self-defeating (in terms of projecting ourselves in to the outer world) if we believe we have some special handicap that makes it hard to do things.
    I don't believe it will be any harder to attain a Ph.D because of my laziness. I'm tired of doing school work and want to apply my mind while in the field.

    My involvement in a student project team only fuels this desire. I help create and get to drive an open wheel racecar with other student engineers in my free time. Being able to turn raw material into something faster than anything street legal under 500K is a great feeling. Its also provides practical experience and gives me a huge edge over students who only hit the books. I enjoy doing this while in school, and I'm excited to go do the same once I graduate.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJT View Post
    Now, my previous statement is not an example of me shaping my behaviors to align with an INTPs characteristic laziness. I'm naturally lazy and somewhat unmotivated. I was this way before I ever heard about MBTI, I knew I was this way before MBTI and I'm probably going to stay this way for a long time. The reason I am choosing to stop my education before I reach the Ph.D stage is because I want to move on to a job and apply the knowledge I am gaining. Defeat isn't in my vocabulary, I just want change.
    I see.

    Getting a Ph. D., eventually, is one of my goals too. But, like you(?), I don't want to get it in an irrelevant or esoteric field. I like to apply the theories I learn.

    It's just that your wording triggered in me associations w/ people I know who say thing like, "I know most people can do <whatever> if they put in the effort, but they just don't have MY problems". Anything phrased like that (I do it too), seems defeatist to me.

    Upon re-reading your post, I see I was doing too much inference.

    Still, I think the INTP decription has fostered somewhat of a defeatist attitude in me, and I hate that.

    I don't belive myself to be an "idle intellectual" nor someone who lacks follow through, and I resent being typed in a category with that as one of the characteristic weaknesses.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I see.

    Getting a Ph. D., eventually, is one of my goals too. But, like you(?), I don't want to get it in an irrelevant or esoteric field. I like to apply the theories I learn.

    It's just that your wording triggered in me associations w/ people I know who say thing like, "I know most people can do <whatever> if they put in the effort, but they just don't have MY problems". Anything phrased like that (I do it too), seems defeatist to me.

    Upon re-reading your post, I see I was doing too much inference.

    Still, I think the INTP decription has fostered somewhat of a defeatist attitude in me, and I hate that.

    I don't belive myself to be an "idle intellectual" nor someone who lacks follow through, and I resent being typed in a category with that as one of the characteristic weaknesses.
    Honestly, becoming an expert in a useless field isn't something I really ever worried about. If I choose to go to that length, I'd probably end up with a degree in Mechanical Engineering or Theoretical and Applied Mechanics. I'm not interested in academia, but even still there are numerous places in the field I could apply my talents. Ultimately, I'd thoroughly enjoy working for McLarens Formula 1 team, despite the large fine they incurred recently! Ph.Ds are probably the ones doing the development work for that company, being as they are on the cutting edge of 4 wheeled road racing technology. I doubt you'd even get a look from a F1 team without a Ph.D.

    Reading my sentence, I can understand how you came to the conclusion you came to. Ironically, I'm also the kind of person who hates self defeating attitudes. Don't say you can't do it until you've actually tried it!

    The characteristic INTP idleness is demeaning, but the characteristic isn't completely groundless in its assertions. Just like everything in this world, we posses flaws. Laziness happens to be one specific to INTPs. I'm always trying to better myself and this laziness I posses is just one thing I work on. I hate it no more or no less than any of my other negative traits.
    Just don't let it get to you, I say!

    Now I gotta focus on the studies! I have a thermodynamics test tomorrow and I'm not yet ready for it!

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    Actually, laziness is a typical characteristic of I__P's. E__J's are aggressive and driven, I__J's are overprecise workaholics (especially IxTJ's), and E__P's are random and unfocused.

    But I don't think INTP's are specifically lazy... they may just not utilize their intellect to the extent other NT's do, and only do however much they must in order to get by. They're probably the most motivated of the I__P's, actually.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    But I don't think INTP's are specifically lazy... they may just not utilize their intellect to the extent other NT's do, and only do however much they must in order to get by.
    Weird, there are many INTPs, I know, who essentially utilize their intellect as if it were the only thing they had.

    It seems a little outside the stereotype to consider INTPs the NT's who least utilize their intellect. Especially since, some type descriptions actually call the INTP "The Thinker".

    I wonder what you mean by "utilizing the intellect". I think INTP's are good candidates for "over-utilizing their intellects".

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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