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  1. #11
    Member The Unknown Essence's Avatar
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    I disagree with athenian200. I think INTPs do over utilize their intellects to the point of getting lost in analysing theories rather than applying them. I know that if I come across an idea or concept that interests me, I can spend a really long time gaining pleasure from dissecting it in my mind. I have very little interest in implementing the ideas in the real world.

    As for whether this "knowing, but not doing" is a bad thing, I think it can be. For example, my perfect job would consist of being paid to come up with new ideas(E.G. concepts for new TV shows) while others would be responsible for making my ideas into reality. However, no such job exists. That's the problem for me.
    Last edited by The Unknown Essence; 10-12-2007 at 06:04 AM.
    "But only in their dreams can men be truly free. 'Twas always thus, and always thus will be." - Dead Poets Society

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  2. #12
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Prompted by



    from another thread.

    I find myself thinking this way from time to time and I hate it. I never thought like that before I heard about MBTI or the "Knows All, Does Nothing" stereotype of the INTP.

    I implore people to please, please, be careful when learning about MBTI -- it can be detremental to your well-being.
    Defeatist? Lack of external achievements does not imply a defeat of any kind. INTPs only need enough external achievements to protect the integrity of their inner world. Going any further would be unnecessary tyranny.

    After all, this is what introverted judgment is about: setting an internal standard by which all is to be evaluated. External achievements are only desirable if they are required by an internal standard. There is no need to accept them uncritically with an EJ mentality.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #13
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I think his point was that we shouldn't limit ourselves based on the perceived weaknesses described in MBTI type descriptions.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  4. #14
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Weird, there are many INTPs, I know, who essentially utilize their intellect as if it were the only thing they had.

    It seems a little outside the stereotype to consider INTPs the NT's who least utilize their intellect. Especially since, some type descriptions actually call the INTP "The Thinker".

    I wonder what you mean by "utilizing the intellect". I think INTP's are good candidates for "over-utilizing their intellects".
    I meant that they don't actually use their intellect to achieve anything externally. They tend to just use it for hobbies and analyzing theories, perhaps taking only the amount of work they need to get by so they can focus on their thoughts. Actually, I use Thinking in roughly the same way... but that's because I'm more focused on sensitivity, awareness, and tact when I deal with people.

    I never said INTP's weren't intellectual.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I meant that they don't actually use their intellect to achieve anything externally. They tend to just use it for hobbies and analyzing theories, perhaps taking only the amount of work they need to get by so they can focus on their thoughts.
    What is this abstract "external achievement" you speak of? Was Einstein's achievement "external"? It is recodred externally, but I think his "achievement" was internal.

    On a more mundane note, is a design for part a chip or a piece of software, "external"? Again, recorded externally, tested externally, but the "resolution of forces", the solution to constraints of the problem were "achieved" internally.

    Do you see value in that? Do you see painstaking work in that? Do you see how focus or primacy on the "external" aspects can ruin that?

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I never said INTP's weren't intellectual.
    Not in so many words, but I equate utilizing the intellect with being intellectual.

    I have yet to caox-out and understand this other (negative?) perception of "being intellectual".

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What is this abstract "external achievement" you speak of? Was Einstein's achievement "external"? It is recodred externally, but I think his "achievement" was internal.

    On a more mundane note, is a design for part a chip or a piece of software, "external"? Again, recorded externally, tested externally, but the "resolution of forces", the solution to constraints of the problem were "achieved" internally.

    Do you see value in that? Do you see painstaking work in that? Do you see how focus or primacy on the "external" aspects can ruin that?



    Not in so many words, but I equate utilizing the intellect with being intellectual.

    I have yet to caox-out and understand this other (negative?) perception of "being intellectual".
    The external achievement he speaks of is a concept I understand completely. I have a strong desire to contemplate the world I live in, but I am also driven (although to a lesser extent) to get things done that are tangible conceptually or physically by those who surround me. Being able to cross things off the list feels good too.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJT View Post
    The external achievement he speaks of is a concept I understand completely. I have a strong desire to contemplate the world I live in, but I am also driven (although to a lesser extent) to get things done that are tangible conceptually or physically by those who surround me. Being able to cross things off the list feels good too.
    I was playing devil's advocate (I forgot my , so if I offended you Athenian200, I am sorry) Unfortunately, subtlety in discourse is difficult.

    I was trying to walk a fine line between many different ideas related to the same words. I post again (or EDIT) when I come up with words to describe my thoughts.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  8. #18
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What is this abstract "external achievement" you speak of? Was Einstein's achievement "external"? It is recorded externally, but I think his "achievement" was internal.
    Possible... but he did find a way to take the ideas from his mind, and explain them in terms other people could understand. Some INTP's just accumulate understanding, and never bother to use it or explain it.
    On a more mundane note, is a design for part a chip or a piece of software, "external"? Again, recorded externally, tested externally, but the "resolution of forces", the solution to constraints of the problem were "achieved" internally.
    If you want to be technical, I suppose so. But the point was, that INTP's are more focused on the internal factor than the external factor, and thus from a Judging perspective, usually achieve less externally than do other types.
    Do you see value in that? Do you see painstaking work in that? Do you see how focus or primacy on the "external" aspects can ruin that?
    Yes, of course I do. I would never say that Rene Descartes or other such people didn't come up with anything meaningful. The thing is, what they contributed is less immediately apparent because it often changes the way we think about things rather than having an immediately obvious benefit.

    Not in so many words, but I equate utilizing the intellect with being intellectual.

    I have yet to coax out and understand this other (negative?) perception of "being intellectual".
    Perhaps I misspoke. It isn't that they don't utilize it, it's that they don't use it for their own personal gain as often as for the sake of the idea itself. This means that by conventional standards, they are less successful, although they may be lauded after the implications of their idea are realized. But the actual application of it is often from someone other than themselves.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    It isn't that they don't utilize it, it's that they don't use it for their own personal gain as often as for the sake of the idea itself.
    I believe this to be true. But I thought if I said that, it would be self-gratification, more than an explanation. But since you said it, not me...

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    This means that by conventional standards, they are less successful, although they may be lauded after the implications of their idea are realized. But the actual application of it is often from someone other than themselves.
    Most INTPs I am acquainted with IRL are fairly well-off materially, but I doubt that material success is high on their list of priorities. I don't think material success is the "conventional" sense of success, either. But I think that can all be discussed under the success thread formed earlier.
    ----------

    If I didn't learn about MBTI, I would not have thoughts like the following...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Unknown Essence View Post
    As for whether this "knowing, but not doing" is a bad thing, I think it can be. For example, my perfect job would consist of being paid to come up with new ideas(E.G. concepts for new TV shows) while others would be responsible for making my ideas into reality. However, no such job exists. That's the problem for me.
    This seems somewhat self-defeating. How do we know that no such job exists? Our economy runs on specialization, why can we not work with ours?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #20
    Junior Member Polgara's Avatar
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    I find myself thinking this way from time to time and I hate it. I never thought like that before I heard about MBTI or the "Knows All, Does Nothing" stereotype of the INTP.
    Someone (I think it was Ramakrishna) once said that the further you advance toward God, the less worldly duties he gives you to perform. I enjoy my INTP tendancy live inside my head--and the analyzing skills that come with it. I highly recommend the book / CD "Being in Balance" by Dr. Wayne Dyer. You can "just be" and be highly productive at the same time.

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