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[MBTI General] ENXP mask/facet confusion

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
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Sorry couldnt figure out a better name for this thread

Watching our new ENFP VP has awesome. I found someone who "thinks" they way I do. His mannerisms, facial expressions, speech patterns, are all so-normal. I totally get him. I totally get it now when you guys tell each other to "get out of my brain". He says and does exactly what I would do.

So what I have observed-he can surprise people. He goes along in NeFi mode, happy, happy, happy, then instantly starts to think-Te-a facet shift-and becomes authoritarian. This catches people offguard-the inconsistency. I do this as well. It is not a planned thing and is not typically a sign of displeasure or anger-just Te analysis. Folks, especially Fe doms and Auxs or other Fs will think I am angry, controlling, dominating or bitchy when really I am just in a direct Te analytical mode.

So my ENTPs do this some too-at least from what I observe external-cant read their minds of course, so external observations. Nice, nice,nice Fe pleasantries, then Ti abruptness-a mask shift?. Or the reverse. Typically an individual will do one or the other pattern. Here, again, no anger, just a need to "think" or be "socially pleasant" depending upon the circumstances, yet it can really surprise people and make people think they are pissed.

So Qs for ENXPs:

1 do you see these patterns in yourself?

2 do you consciously choose to modify your external behavior recognizing the potential for confusion? ie for me this means act more consistantly Te to prevent people from thinking I "got bitchy" all of the sudden.

3 Are there certain personality types who this is more of an issue with?


4 do you find you get confused by your ENXP counterparts? Ie if an entp, this behavior by and enfp confuses you...


and any other thoughts of course... :D
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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Dec 16, 2008
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7w6
I don't have two masks ... I have numerous masks, each one slightly different depending on who I'm talking to and what's going on. It's not so simple that it can be broken down by Fe / Ti.


And ENFPs don't confuse me. The issues I see people mention about you guys over in the NF section are irrelevant for me. When I have an issue with an ENFP, I always know precisely what caused the problem (though unfortunately, this is nearly always in hindsight).
 

ArchitectofFate

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ENTP's are psychos. We have a thousand faces to deal with different kinds of people.
 

SerengetiBetty

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I don't see this as a being a mask. Normally I'm easy going and hard to offend but sometimes people will mistake this for me being a doormat and will cross a line they shouldn't. When that happens I put a little bass in my voice (as one of my guy friends calls it) and they get the point that they've crossed a line and that was Warning #1. I'm usually not pissed, I just recognize a pattern and want to nip it in the bud before it gets worse.

And I suppose it's confused people before, but that's their fault if they don't realize that human beings are complex.
 

Katsuni

Priestess Of Syrinx
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3w4?
I think everyone beat me to it looks like >.>;;

In any case, let's see here.


1 do you see these patterns in yourself?
Yep.


2 do you consciously choose to modify your external behavior recognizing the potential for confusion? ie for me this means act more consistantly Te to prevent people from thinking I "got bitchy" all of the sudden.

Not really, it's often instinctual to the point of not realizing it occured. As many people have stated, there's often a multitude of 'masks' of a sort to be better able to fit in. Most are fairly straight forwards, but there's alot of variations. They are all extensions of the self though, from 'thoughtful' to 'aggressively debating' and so on. They each have their purpose though, and tend to surface as needed without notification. Blindside me with a question that gets me thinking, and yeu can see the whole mood change entirely to match it immediately.


3 Are there certain personality types who this is more of an issue with?
I wouldn't know myself, but after reading almost all the ENTP's stating similar situations to my own, I can imagine it being a plausible scenario.


4 do you find you get confused by your ENXP counterparts? Ie if an entp, this behavior by and enfp confuses you...

I haven't really been able to identify people as ENFP regularly yet, but in general, I rarely fully get confused by anyone's actions, as I'm usually able to grasp leaps of logic by several steps as easily as they are capable of skipping them themselves. In general, this usually means I won't be confused, though I do get dumbfounded by people who insist on believing something with no proof, yet expect everyone else to believe they're right, also without proof. Yeu're free to believe whotever yeu want, I just don't see how yeu can assume that anyone else would think yeu're right if yeu can't even make a solid argument for such. That DOES confuse me, but is unrelated to ENFP's.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
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sx/so
Someone has to make life interesting - it might as well be the ENXP. :devil: :cool:
 

Wild horses

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I agree with the whole many different masks thing... I can be slightly different depending on the people I'm around... hence the whole chameleon rep I guess... Occasionaly I will switch though and surprise those around me. One thing I do notice is that due to our emotionality people often attach feelings to our analysis where there really isn't meant to be any and so then we get in trouble for 'being bitchy'. It's just because our sudden detachment is unexpected.
 

sculpting

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Not really, it's often instinctual to the point of not realizing it occured. As many people have stated, there's often a multitude of 'masks' of a sort to be better able to fit in. Most are fairly straight forwards, but there's alot of variations. They are all extensions of the self though, from 'thoughtful' to 'aggressively debating' and so on. They each have their purpose though, and tend to surface as needed without notification. Blindside me with a question that gets me thinking, and yeu can see the whole mood change entirely to match it immediately.

I agree with the whole many different masks thing... I can be slightly different depending on the people I'm around... hence the whole chameleon rep I guess... Occasionaly I will switch though and surprise those around me. One thing I do notice is that due to our emotionality people often attach feelings to our analysis where there really isn't meant to be any and so then we get in trouble for 'being bitchy'. It's just because our sudden detachment is unexpected.

I think the bolded parts above are what I am looking at. I wanted to make sure other ENFPs can see the same thing I am seeing-the switching which may confuse external observers-and then see if ENTPs may do the same thing. Not the intentional switch because someone pisses you off as sarengeti mentioned-both types do that for sure-the actual cognitive switch as you transition to a different activity.

For an ENFP the "facets" seem to be continously melding and shifting, very with that person being interacted with. We are "molded" and formed for that person and can shift from second to second. We form ourselves around them.

However the Te transition is abrupt. Immediately we stop molding to the other person and detach. So it can "feel" very abrupt and disconcerting for an observer.

It sounds like ENTPs do the same thing, but perhaps the masks are better at enabling the transition, without being disconconcerting to the observer? Or perhaps since the mask wasnt founded on Fi interactions, like the facets, transitions in the mask are less obvious? I dunno...

The reason I am bugging you guys-entps-is that between Ne doms, there is a really neat symmetry. For every odd thing an ENTP does, an ENFP mimics it. The observed behavior will be drastically different and the functions involved are different but the underlying scaffold/mechanism from Ne appears to be the same. For instance the ENTP shrug is symmetric to the ENFP Rage and so on...

Often I cant see these things in myself until I see them in an ENTP and try and understand them. THEN I can see a symmetric pattern in ENFPs. It's like weaving. So I go back and forth.
 

ArchitectofFate

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One thing I do notice is that due to our emotionality people often attach feelings to our analysis where there really isn't meant to be any and so then we get in trouble for 'being bitchy'. It's just because our sudden detachment is unexpected.

People always tell me I'm bitchy. ENFP's are dreamers, easy to spot them. Crazy people who dream of fantasy world.
 

Valuable_Money

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ENFP's are dreamers, easy to spot them. Crazy people who dream of fantasy world.

Willy_Wonka.jpg


I think I finaly understand the ENFP mindset. Theyre like ENTPs on acid.
 

Qre:us

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So Qs for ENXPs:

1 do you see these patterns in yourself?

Yes

2 do you consciously choose to modify your external behavior recognizing the potential for confusion? ie for me this means act more consistantly Te to prevent people from thinking I "got bitchy" all of the sudden.

Nope, that would mean I'm consistently in the strong-hold of a certain function, when life's events may call for an array of processing functions and skills within them. But, what does happen is that I notice it after the fact, when it's pointed out to me.

Q...you can be quite mean.
What did I do to warrent this niceness now? :thelook:

What I don't get is how it's a confusion to people. It's not a real Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde, just ranges in my self-expression, and one thing I am, is contradictions. That is consistently me.

I can be silly and random to the fringes of weirdness and back, and, just as quickly, I can get into Ti-focus mode where I'm zoning in on clearing the holes from a rational argument, where my terseness is seen as 'bitchy' while for me, it's about no-nonsense, no-fluff time. Faculty in one should not confuse others as to why/how I can have faculty in the other.

3 Are there certain personality types who this is more of an issue with?

:confused:

4 do you find you get confused by your ENXP counterparts? Ie if an entp, this behavior by and enfp confuses you...

I get confused by the jumps Fi makes, not the change of guards. :D

Everyone guards themselves to fulfill a purpose in a social interaction, and some guards are almost transluscent. And, with changes in social settings/context, the change of guards is bound to happen.

But, for Fi, it's the strong emotion that is given to X, and then, just as easily given to Y when X is the opposite (seemingly) of Y. My Ti has a hard time reconciling that.
 

entropie

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I thought about this concept myself. Due to Ne being no functional form of communication, due to Ti being no functional form aswell, it mostly becomes Fe ones act upon or out of, when socializing.

Given that it has a weak position and is highly influenced by Ne, it can come off as confusing and erradic. And that paired with the fact that Ti, which stores most probably the feelings or architecture of the real self, is being overlapped by a great deal by the two Ne+Fe, it could appear that an ENTP is wearing a mask.

That's what I try to tell people, not to take the things I say at face value. They rather should try to dig in and gain my trust so I may open up the Ti-sphere. But one needs a special person for that mostly and most of the times it should be reserved to a special person.

As a good Enneagram 3 I like to end this with: The daily life is all about achievement :)
 

Poki

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However the Te transition is abrupt. Immediately we stop molding to the other person and detach. So it can "feel" very abrupt and disconcerting for an observer.

To me this switch seems like you(ENFPs) switch from Te to Ti. Its like you go from talking and interacting to in your head for a second. It is very abrupt and noticeable. Its fun watching this point because the reaction right after gives an idea of the thought. It could be a smile, it could be a confused look followed by more Te. It is very interesting :D
 

sculpting

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Q...you can be quite mean.
What did I do to warrent this niceness now? :thelook:

What I don't get is how it's a confusion to people. It's not a real Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde, just ranges in my self-expression, and one thing I am, is contradictions. That is consistently me.

I can be silly and random to the fringes of weirdness and back, and, just as quickly, I can get into Ti-focus mode where I'm zoning in on clearing the holes from a rational argument, where my terseness is seen as 'bitchy' while for me, it's about no-nonsense, no-fluff time. Faculty in one should not confuse others as to why/how I can have faculty in the other.

I get confused by the jumps Fi makes, not the change of guards. :D

But, for Fi, it's the strong emotion that is given to X, and then, just as easily given to Y when X is the opposite (seemingly) of Y. My Ti has a hard time reconciling that.

I occasionally will get tripped up by ENTPs I do not know well-why he is he suddenly serious? Typically this is a transition not just to Ti, but over the edge into INTJ shadow land. Or I will not trust them when they get way too nice all of a sudden. Not an issue for entps I know well though. Otherwise I think the ENTP-ENFP interface is actually a lot of fun as we play off of each other's faces. I was more curious as to how these "transitions" appear to say Fe doms.

Fi makes emo jumps, most certainly. It follows a different set of rules that-well-can defy logic. More fun also-as evidenced by the "ENTPs on acid" comment-is that we get to play with Ne unhampered by Ti. We make CRAZY ass connections-utterly illogical. Random. fun, fun, fun. Although I think you guys can also detach the NeTi and come up with wierd as well.

I thought about this concept myself. Due to Ne being no functional form of communication, due to Ti being no functional form aswell, it mostly becomes Fe ones act upon or out of, when socializing.:)

That is really interesting. Fi is sort of nonenunciate too. I hadnt thought about Ti not being "able" to talk as well.

Given that it has a weak position and is highly influenced by Ne, it can come off as confusing and erradic. And that paired with the fact that Ti, which stores most probably the feelings or architecture of the real self, is being overlapped by a great deal by the two Ne+Fe, it could appear that an ENTP is wearing a mask.

That's what I try to tell people, not to take the things I say at face value. They rather should try to dig in and gain my trust so I may open up the Ti-sphere. But one needs a special person for that mostly and most of the times it should be reserved to a special person.

Isn't that hard then? What does Fe talk about, if not the ideas that Ti comes up with??? I guess I understand as Te does my talking and Fi only peeks from under the covers. But Te thinks about stuff that Ne feeds it. It builds structures and boxes and tries to stuff things in them. What does NeFe talk about?

To me this switch seems like you(ENFPs) switch from Te to Ti. Its like you go from talking and interacting to in your head for a second. It is very abrupt and noticeable. Its fun watching this point because the reaction right after gives an idea of the thought. It could be a smile, it could be a confused look followed by more Te. It is very interesting :D

Maybe you are seeing NeTe to pure Te? What are thier eyes doing when they go in their head? NeTe can be very dominant and have a lot of debate/discussion. Ti-it's not our natural mode. Maybe we are taking the Te info, analyzing for a second internally, then reapplying it externally. Out-in-out, where I think Ti is more in-out-in.
 
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