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  1. #11
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    I agree with the whole many different masks thing... I can be slightly different depending on the people I'm around... hence the whole chameleon rep I guess... Occasionaly I will switch though and surprise those around me. One thing I do notice is that due to our emotionality people often attach feelings to our analysis where there really isn't meant to be any and so then we get in trouble for 'being bitchy'. It's just because our sudden detachment is unexpected.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Not really, it's often instinctual to the point of not realizing it occured. As many people have stated, there's often a multitude of 'masks' of a sort to be better able to fit in. Most are fairly straight forwards, but there's alot of variations. They are all extensions of the self though, from 'thoughtful' to 'aggressively debating' and so on. They each have their purpose though, and tend to surface as needed without notification. Blindside me with a question that gets me thinking, and yeu can see the whole mood change entirely to match it immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    I agree with the whole many different masks thing... I can be slightly different depending on the people I'm around... hence the whole chameleon rep I guess... Occasionaly I will switch though and surprise those around me. One thing I do notice is that due to our emotionality people often attach feelings to our analysis where there really isn't meant to be any and so then we get in trouble for 'being bitchy'. It's just because our sudden detachment is unexpected.
    I think the bolded parts above are what I am looking at. I wanted to make sure other ENFPs can see the same thing I am seeing-the switching which may confuse external observers-and then see if ENTPs may do the same thing. Not the intentional switch because someone pisses you off as sarengeti mentioned-both types do that for sure-the actual cognitive switch as you transition to a different activity.

    For an ENFP the "facets" seem to be continously melding and shifting, very with that person being interacted with. We are "molded" and formed for that person and can shift from second to second. We form ourselves around them.

    However the Te transition is abrupt. Immediately we stop molding to the other person and detach. So it can "feel" very abrupt and disconcerting for an observer.

    It sounds like ENTPs do the same thing, but perhaps the masks are better at enabling the transition, without being disconconcerting to the observer? Or perhaps since the mask wasnt founded on Fi interactions, like the facets, transitions in the mask are less obvious? I dunno...

    The reason I am bugging you guys-entps-is that between Ne doms, there is a really neat symmetry. For every odd thing an ENTP does, an ENFP mimics it. The observed behavior will be drastically different and the functions involved are different but the underlying scaffold/mechanism from Ne appears to be the same. For instance the ENTP shrug is symmetric to the ENFP Rage and so on...

    Often I cant see these things in myself until I see them in an ENTP and try and understand them. THEN I can see a symmetric pattern in ENFPs. It's like weaving. So I go back and forth.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    One thing I do notice is that due to our emotionality people often attach feelings to our analysis where there really isn't meant to be any and so then we get in trouble for 'being bitchy'. It's just because our sudden detachment is unexpected.
    People always tell me I'm bitchy. ENFP's are dreamers, easy to spot them. Crazy people who dream of fantasy world.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchitectofFate View Post
    ENFP's are dreamers, easy to spot them. Crazy people who dream of fantasy world.


    I think I finaly understand the ENFP mindset. Theyre like ENTPs on acid.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valuable_Money View Post
    Paddly-wack
    give a dog a bone

  6. #16
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valuable_Money View Post
    Paddly-wack
    I always thought it was pattie-whack! My life is a lie!
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  7. #17
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    So Qs for ENXPs:

    1 do you see these patterns in yourself?
    Yes

    2 do you consciously choose to modify your external behavior recognizing the potential for confusion? ie for me this means act more consistantly Te to prevent people from thinking I "got bitchy" all of the sudden.
    Nope, that would mean I'm consistently in the strong-hold of a certain function, when life's events may call for an array of processing functions and skills within them. But, what does happen is that I notice it after the fact, when it's pointed out to me.

    Q...you can be quite mean.
    What did I do to warrent this niceness now?

    What I don't get is how it's a confusion to people. It's not a real Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde, just ranges in my self-expression, and one thing I am, is contradictions. That is consistently me.

    I can be silly and random to the fringes of weirdness and back, and, just as quickly, I can get into Ti-focus mode where I'm zoning in on clearing the holes from a rational argument, where my terseness is seen as 'bitchy' while for me, it's about no-nonsense, no-fluff time. Faculty in one should not confuse others as to why/how I can have faculty in the other.

    3 Are there certain personality types who this is more of an issue with?
    :confused:

    4 do you find you get confused by your ENXP counterparts? Ie if an entp, this behavior by and enfp confuses you...
    I get confused by the jumps Fi makes, not the change of guards.

    Everyone guards themselves to fulfill a purpose in a social interaction, and some guards are almost transluscent. And, with changes in social settings/context, the change of guards is bound to happen.

    But, for Fi, it's the strong emotion that is given to X, and then, just as easily given to Y when X is the opposite (seemingly) of Y. My Ti has a hard time reconciling that.

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I thought about this concept myself. Due to Ne being no functional form of communication, due to Ti being no functional form aswell, it mostly becomes Fe ones act upon or out of, when socializing.

    Given that it has a weak position and is highly influenced by Ne, it can come off as confusing and erradic. And that paired with the fact that Ti, which stores most probably the feelings or architecture of the real self, is being overlapped by a great deal by the two Ne+Fe, it could appear that an ENTP is wearing a mask.

    That's what I try to tell people, not to take the things I say at face value. They rather should try to dig in and gain my trust so I may open up the Ti-sphere. But one needs a special person for that mostly and most of the times it should be reserved to a special person.

    As a good Enneagram 3 I like to end this with: The daily life is all about achievement
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    However the Te transition is abrupt. Immediately we stop molding to the other person and detach. So it can "feel" very abrupt and disconcerting for an observer.
    To me this switch seems like you(ENFPs) switch from Te to Ti. Its like you go from talking and interacting to in your head for a second. It is very abrupt and noticeable. Its fun watching this point because the reaction right after gives an idea of the thought. It could be a smile, it could be a confused look followed by more Te. It is very interesting

  10. #20
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Q...you can be quite mean.
    What did I do to warrent this niceness now?

    What I don't get is how it's a confusion to people. It's not a real Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde, just ranges in my self-expression, and one thing I am, is contradictions. That is consistently me.

    I can be silly and random to the fringes of weirdness and back, and, just as quickly, I can get into Ti-focus mode where I'm zoning in on clearing the holes from a rational argument, where my terseness is seen as 'bitchy' while for me, it's about no-nonsense, no-fluff time. Faculty in one should not confuse others as to why/how I can have faculty in the other.

    I get confused by the jumps Fi makes, not the change of guards.

    But, for Fi, it's the strong emotion that is given to X, and then, just as easily given to Y when X is the opposite (seemingly) of Y. My Ti has a hard time reconciling that.
    I occasionally will get tripped up by ENTPs I do not know well-why he is he suddenly serious? Typically this is a transition not just to Ti, but over the edge into INTJ shadow land. Or I will not trust them when they get way too nice all of a sudden. Not an issue for entps I know well though. Otherwise I think the ENTP-ENFP interface is actually a lot of fun as we play off of each other's faces. I was more curious as to how these "transitions" appear to say Fe doms.

    Fi makes emo jumps, most certainly. It follows a different set of rules that-well-can defy logic. More fun also-as evidenced by the "ENTPs on acid" comment-is that we get to play with Ne unhampered by Ti. We make CRAZY ass connections-utterly illogical. Random. fun, fun, fun. Although I think you guys can also detach the NeTi and come up with wierd as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I thought about this concept myself. Due to Ne being no functional form of communication, due to Ti being no functional form aswell, it mostly becomes Fe ones act upon or out of, when socializing.
    That is really interesting. Fi is sort of nonenunciate too. I hadnt thought about Ti not being "able" to talk as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Given that it has a weak position and is highly influenced by Ne, it can come off as confusing and erradic. And that paired with the fact that Ti, which stores most probably the feelings or architecture of the real self, is being overlapped by a great deal by the two Ne+Fe, it could appear that an ENTP is wearing a mask.

    That's what I try to tell people, not to take the things I say at face value. They rather should try to dig in and gain my trust so I may open up the Ti-sphere. But one needs a special person for that mostly and most of the times it should be reserved to a special person.
    Isn't that hard then? What does Fe talk about, if not the ideas that Ti comes up with??? I guess I understand as Te does my talking and Fi only peeks from under the covers. But Te thinks about stuff that Ne feeds it. It builds structures and boxes and tries to stuff things in them. What does NeFe talk about?

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    To me this switch seems like you(ENFPs) switch from Te to Ti. Its like you go from talking and interacting to in your head for a second. It is very abrupt and noticeable. Its fun watching this point because the reaction right after gives an idea of the thought. It could be a smile, it could be a confused look followed by more Te. It is very interesting
    Maybe you are seeing NeTe to pure Te? What are thier eyes doing when they go in their head? NeTe can be very dominant and have a lot of debate/discussion. Ti-it's not our natural mode. Maybe we are taking the Te info, analyzing for a second internally, then reapplying it externally. Out-in-out, where I think Ti is more in-out-in.

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