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[INTP] INTP Rage

Schizm

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Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
134
MBTI Type
INTP
Lately, I am pissed off. Most everyone out there seems like they are out to fuck with people. You can't trust a soul. People are tactical. They open up to you to have you open to them only to attempt to cripple you later. I have seen the worst in people for a very long time. My agitations are at an all time high. All I know is that it is about survival. You, reader, mine as well kill me and eat me if it came down to it. Believe me, I am aware that you are an animal just as much as I am. Any other INTP hyper-vigilant?
 

Arandur

New member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
60
MBTI Type
INTJ
Although I am INTJ, I feel the same way. I've just learned to sit back and laugh at it all. However, when someone attempts their self-serving bullshit on me, I scare them into taking their manipulative victimization tactics elsewhere by, when the time is right, telling them in accurate detail exactly what their motive, manner and objective is in the most condescending tone I can execute.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Lately, I am pissed off. Most everyone out there seems like they are out to fuck with people. You can't trust a soul. People are tactical. They open up to you to have you open to them only to attempt to cripple you later. I have seen the worst in people for a very long time. My agitations are at an all time high. All I know is that it is about survival. You, reader, mine as well kill me and eat me if it came down to it. Believe me, I am aware that you are an animal just as much as I am. Any other INTP hyper-vigilant?

Are you saying that this bothers you? Do you expect them to be any other way? If so, what do you want them to be like?

Well, if you don't want people to take advantage of you, then be sure they think you have something you could use against them before trusting them, or just make sure you don't give them anything they can use against you. If you want to truly be involved with people, it involves some risk. It's as simple as that. What's the problem? Is it a more specific situation?
 

Schizm

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
134
MBTI Type
INTP
Although I am INTJ, I feel the same way. I've just learned to sit back and laugh at it all. However, when someone attempts their self-serving bullshit on me, I scare them into taking their manipulative victimization tactics elsewhere by, when the time is right, telling them in accurate detail exactly what their motive, manner and objective is in the most condescending tone I can execute.

I concur. Lately my mind fixates on people's intentions. I probe at them as much as possible. Interesting how easily most give away clues as to their true motivations.
 

Schizm

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
134
MBTI Type
INTP
Are you saying that this bothers you? Do you expect them to be any other way? If so, what do you want them to be like?

Well, if you don't want people to take advantage of you, then be sure they think you have something you could use against them before trusting them, or just make sure you don't give them anything they can use against you. If you want to truly be involved with people, it involves some risk. It's as simple as that. What's the problem? Is it a more specific situation?

No one will take advantage of me.

I don't find human interaction simple even though you didn't mean the wording to be used in this way. People can't be trusted. You shouldn't trust me either. Everyone is out for themselves. I have no friends, only alliances which can crumble at any second.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
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4w5
No one will take advantage of me.

I don't find human interaction simple even though you didn't mean the wording to be used in this way. People can't be trusted. You shouldn't trust me either. Everyone is out for themselves. I have no friends, only alliances which can crumble at any second.

Who said I trusted you? You can't do anything to me from here.

Yes, everyone is out for themselves in the end. Even charitable people experience some kind of inner satisfaction in their behavior.

Are you trying to say that you dislike having alliances that can crumble at any second, and want "actual" friends that you can trust? Well, there is no way to guarantee that. But some people want loyalty and a confidant... there's no reason to assume that someone won't reciprocate eventually if you keep at it. Even if they don't, what do you gain by never trusting anyone, even if it means you're never disappointed? Nothing.
 

Arandur

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Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
60
MBTI Type
INTJ
I concur. Lately my mind fixates on people's intentions. I probe at them as much as possible. Interesting how easily most give away clues as to their true motivations.

Indeed; it amazes me how naive they must be to actually think that someone wouldn't eventually pick up on their crap, but I guess I can't blame them if they've been choosing victims as dull as themselves for any length of time.

There is little I enjoy more than seeing the look on the face of any given manipulative cretin after I've publicly exposed their disgustingly selfish motives to their less perceptive victims and allies.
 

Schizm

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Sep 10, 2007
Messages
134
MBTI Type
INTP
Who said I trusted you? You can't do anything to me from here.

Yes, everyone is out for themselves in the end. Even charitable people experience some kind of inner satisfaction in their behavior.

Are you trying to say that you dislike having alliances that can crumble at any second, and want "actual" friends that you can trust? Well, there is no way to guarantee that. But some people want loyalty and a confidant... there's no reason to assume that someone won't reciprocate eventually if you keep at it. Even if they don't, what do you gain by never trusting anyone, even if it means you're never disappointed? Nothing.

I don't think it is possible to truly trust anyone. No, I am not saying anything about alliances crumbling. I can trust at surface level but people shouldn't expect me tell them anything about my private life. And they should not get mad if they share something deep with me and I don't reciprocate. They made the decision to open that avenue and I made the decision to stay on my side of the street.

Do you open up to people?
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
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Messages
8,828
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4w5
And don't get mad if you share something deep with me and I don't reciprocate. You made the decision to open that avenue and I made the decision to stay on my side of the street.

So your complaint is that people expect you to do something that you don't want to because they shared something with you?
Do you open up to people?

Yes... slowly. I tell them smaller things at first, and how they respond. If they seem like good people I can trust, I decide it's worth the risk. Of course it might not be for you... F's probably have a stronger need to interact with and trust people. You may be best off not trusting anyone. From a strategic perspective, it's the smartest not to trust anyone. It's only an emotional perspective that changes the answer.
 

Schizm

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Sep 10, 2007
Messages
134
MBTI Type
INTP
No complaints. I have just seen how uncomfortable certain types get when I don't share my emotions with them. For a while, I engaged Fi as an experiment and it was an utter and total nightmare. I became the dump your shit on me guy to a lot of people. During this time, I found a lot of individuals want so much for you to listen to their problems and if you do they are glad for it. They continue to feed off of it. If you so much as open your mouth about something personal and important to you, you are ignored. I find the whole idea of venting repulsive. If I want to deal with my emotions, I will go for a walk or draw/write.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Apr 19, 2007
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50,187
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BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes, I open up to people about a great many things. And sometimes, in order to "bare my soul" (yeah, it is that "diarist" thing), I probably reveal too much to the public and occasionally get my feelings hurt.

I simply haven't found the same experience you have. I can count on two hands the number of people in my life who have purposefully tried to exploit me (if that many).

The rest of the time, people have been decent and trustworthy; or else they've simply been human and made some mistakes but were willing to rectify things and at worst retreat to a "neutral" or "live and let live" stance.

So I cannot really explain why you've had a completely different set of experiences. I can't tell you whether you are simply in a different social setting where the people are less trustworthy; or whether your approach/attitude is negatively impacting their reactions/treatment of you; or whether you judge people far too harshly as to what "taking advantage of you" means (or I judge them not harshly enough); or whatever else we can conjecture. There are so many possibilities for this, and probably it is a combination of things.

Still, my locus of control has shifted over the years from outside of me to inside of me. Put in simple terms, people only hurt me if I allow them to. So I can feel free to be honest and open with people, and if someone reacts poorly, well, I do not need to choose to allow fear of that to control my life. It's their loss, not mine. And the rest is just emotional hurt, which most of the time goes away.

I refuse to allow others to keep me in a box and not expose myself and be alive.

EDIT: Anyway, don't let my comments stop you from venting and getting it all out. :)
 

JonJT

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Sep 16, 2007
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260
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INTP
The only INTP rage I exhibit is the anger and frustration felt when I can't grasp a concept. Nothing else makes me as angry as this.
 

Schizm

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Sep 10, 2007
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The only INTP rage I exhibit is the anger and frustration felt when I can't grasp a concept. Nothing else makes me as angry as this.

What if I or someone else for no reason hit you in the face?
 

Schizm

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Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
134
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Yes, I open up to people about a great many things. And sometimes, in order to "bare my soul" (yeah, it is that "diarist" thing), I probably reveal too much to the public and occasionally get my feelings hurt.

I simply haven't found the same experience you have. I can count on two hands the number of people in my life who have purposefully tried to exploit me (if that many).

The rest of the time, people have been decent and trustworthy; or else they've simply been human and made some mistakes but were willing to rectify things and at worst retreat to a "neutral" or "live and let live" stance.

So I cannot really explain why you've had a completely different set of experiences. I can't tell you whether you are simply in a different social setting where the people are less trustworthy; or whether your approach/attitude is negatively impacting their reactions/treatment of you; or whether you judge people far too harshly as to what "taking advantage of you" means (or I judge them not harshly enough); or whatever else we can conjecture. There are so many possibilities for this, and probably it is a combination of things.

Still, my locus of control has shifted over the years from outside of me to inside of me. Put in simple terms, people only hurt me if I allow them to. So I can feel free to be honest and open with people, and if someone reacts poorly, well, I do not need to choose to allow fear of that to control my life. It's their loss, not mine. And the rest is just emotional hurt, which most of the time goes away.

I refuse to allow others to keep me in a box and not expose myself and be alive.

EDIT: Anyway, don't let my comments stop you from venting and getting it all out. :)

A little of everything I suppose. But I want to make it clear that I am in no way the victim. I have just observed what happens when I have let people in. Fuck, the idea of letting people in is absurd. I dated this INFJ and told her I didn't want to know how many guys she had humped. She concurred. Why do I want to know that one of my girl friend's b/f used to rob and threaten people's lives for money? Shit like that should stay quiet. Do you think I trust that guy? Hell no. Every time I am around him, I am ready for something to go down. Anyone who wants to go around robbing and fucking with people like that isn't the kind of person I want to be around. And how judgemental of me right? Gee, I have flaws too. Yeah, of course I do but I don't go around threatening to kill people for 10 dollars.

All I know is that people are capable of so very much. They will rob you, lie to you, rape you, murder you, cut you up, wear your face on their head, double dip and the list goes on.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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What if I or someone else for no reason hit you in the face?

That evokes an instinctive defense/fear reaction. I don't know about INTP's, but I would probably respond by either fleeing, or punching back, and my first emotional reaction would be panic and fear. After that point, my fear/self-preservational instinct would make me want to defend myself against the perceived threat. So I would probably try to have them arrested, killed, or hide myself from them, basically do whatever it took to keep them from hurting me again.

True anger would most likely result from from a sense of betrayal... which I guess is one possible interpretation of a sudden punch, but I wouldn't be thinking about that until I was safe. Difficulty understanding something would be frustration, not anger. Anger at not getting something results from the idea that you deserved whatever it was that you didn't get. Anger about something that happened to you results from the idea that you didn't deserve what happened to you. Frustration results from the inability to achieve something, or get past an obstacle. Actually... here's an idea:

Anger --- Betrayal (of self/group by other(s))
Guilt --- Betrayal (by yourself of other(s))
Sadness --- Loss (of self/group)
Victory --- Loss (of other(s))
Happiness --- Gain (of self/group)
Jealousy --- Gain (of other(s))
Fear --- Threat (to self/group)
Opportunity/Advantage --- Threat (to other(s))
Trust --- Risk (of self/group for other(s))
Compassion --- Risk (of other(s) for self/group)
Sympathy/Alliance --- Identification of a subset of other(s) with self/group in some way.
Love --- Established reciprocal relationships between Trust, Compassion, and Sympathy/Alliance, resulting in Gain.
Hate --- Established reciprocal relationships between Fear, Anger, and Sadness, resulting in Loss.

Note that other(s) can be a thing or an idea as well as a person.

Does that make sense? I admit it might be too abstract...
 

Mendacity

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Sep 19, 2007
Messages
131
I guess I'm lucky.
I've got a group of friends and I've known most of them for about 10 years. There are lots of people in my life that I've let in and that I'm glad I did. I've pretty much stuck with those people because over the years they've proved themselves to me again and again.
Any bad eggs among my friends were weeded out pretty quickly.
I think that ensuring that you surround yourself with decent people and thus avoid being screwed over by someone you trusted is a matter of personal responsibility. And if someone I'm friends with has another friend that I don't trust, I ask that friend not to bring them around.
There are people who are capable of all kinds of horrible crap, that's true. But there's also people who are capable of incredibly good things as well.
And which of those groups you chose to hang around with is really your own responsibility.
 

Metamorphosis

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May 9, 2007
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3,474
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INTJ
It sounds to me like you feel like you aren't in control, so you overcompensate with anger.
 

Metamorphosis

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Can you expound on this?

I'll try.

It seems to me that most of my anger (which isn't very often) comes about whenever I'm not really in control of the things or people around me. It's like a survival/self-defense mechanism...the biological differences are obvious when you become angry. It's simply a matter of feeling uncomfortable (which to me...is when I feel like I'm not in control).

Your original post appears to be based on a specific thing that happened to you (although, I could be wrong). I can only assume that someone that you liked/trusted did something to you or reacted to you in a way that you didn't expect and didn't like, so you are reacting with anger.

I used to get angry a lot...now I pretty much only get angry when someone disrespects/embarrasses me. Let's say (hypothetically, of course) that I bare-knuckle boxed a couple of years ago. When I realized that it really wasn't all that bad, I started to feel far more comfortable everywhere. I wasn't afraid to fight because I wasn't afraid to lose and I knew that the chances of losing were slim anyways because I'm willing to do anything for myself and those that are important to me. As an INTP, I'm sure you can identify with at least part of that.

I saw a quote once that said something to the extent of, "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, because I am the evilest mother fucker that ever walked through the valley."

Does any of that help you? Maybe not, but that's my thoughts on anger. Standing up for yourself isn't just about being physical. It can be emotional too. If you don't feel comfortable opening up to people, let them know that. If they can't accept it, that's their problem. If you don't like people dumping their emotional baggage on you, stop listening. I've got more examples if you don't understand entirely where I am coming from.
 

JonJT

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Sep 16, 2007
Messages
260
MBTI Type
INTP
What if I or someone else for no reason hit you in the face?

I've never been in a fist fight, but I'm usually physically passive and diffuse tense situations with words and/or my somewhat intimidating 210 pound 5'11" frame.

Only once in my life have I ever experienced INTP like rage in a physically combative situation. That was on the football field in high school. I ran a kid over while doing drills and gave him a serious concussion.
The reason for this is probably two fold. One, I've never been put in a situation where a serious fist fight was at hand. And two, it takes a lot to put me in a raging mood.

Hypothetically if I was to get hit, I would fight back. The intensity would depend completely on the situation though.


Sometimes, I wish I would get angry over more situations. I would have been a far better athlete on the football field.
 
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