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  1. #11
    Member Folderol's Avatar
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    I am nowhere near that annoyed at movies.

    My problem is stupidity of characters. There are so many ridiculous plot lines too. I know they are movies, but some movies are so far out there or just plain stupid. I find the "quality" of recent movies is sorely lacking... thrown together plot lines, (partially) covered up with special effects.

  2. #12
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folderol View Post
    I am nowhere near that annoyed at movies.

    My problem is stupidity of characters. There are so many ridiculous plot lines too. I know they are movies, but some movies are so far out there or just plain stupid. I find the "quality" of recent movies is sorely lacking... thrown together plot lines, (partially) covered up with special effects.
    Me too.

    Bolded: I saw District 9, and the stupidity of Wikus van de Merwe made me want to leave at some parts.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Leave your Ti at the door.
    Sagely advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh inconsistencies can ruin an entire movie for me, so I definitely relate. For example, my parents love the third LOTR movie, but I can barely watch it because of ridiculousness like the character Elrond (the ugly elf guy) traveling all the way from Rivendell to Rohan with enough time to catch Aragorn (the ugly human guy) before he left. That would be impossible given how long it took the principle characters to travel there during the first and second movies.
    Exactly, it means that we're so involved in the movie - I want to believe - that when the movie drops the ball, it loses my respect.

    As a consumer of the product, I'm asking for a certain level of quality control. I've willingly engaged in the exchange of the product, and damnit, I want delivery! And, it makes it seem as if the director et al. is either (1) shoddy with their work, or, (2) assumes a level of stupidity in the audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by epp View Post
    I definitely notice those inconsistencies and I usually chuckle at them but I have learned to 'switch it off' - just for the sake of enjoying the movie, storyline etc. So that I notice but pay no more attention. Not until after the movie - then I'll have a good laugh
    My friends get exasperated with me because after the movie, when we review it, I have a list of issues, so all they can do is roll their eyes. Or, like my ESFJ best friend says, leave your logic at the door! (Quinlan, style)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    I've run into this a lot as of late. I have no problem suspending disbelief if they at least try to convince me. If not, the movie very quickly becomes a comedy.

    I have to physically restrain myself from pulling a Mystery Science Theater 3000 occasionally.
    So true, in such tragedies the only thing to do is, see it as comedies.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Yes, I am always tremendously bothered by inconsistencies in movies. Especially in movies that claim to be "sophisticated". I don't care if Steven Seagal or Jack Black makes a logical fallacy, but take a movie like The Matrix or Apocalypto and suddenly every little mistake bothers me tremendously, and the movie is ruined to me.

    I think there should be a: "List of movies that are satisfying instead of annoying."

  5. #15
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I would say I enjoy a movie more when there's a fabulous effort made to craft the entire piece, beginning to end, including getting the "science" right. To get the period right, the details consistent, make the characters believable. I too find it irksome if there are too many "mistakes" or ridiculous silly things we are just expected to believe because that's essential to "get" the movie.

    But I loved The Matrix, the first one being the best. I could accept the implausibility of the scenario because the rest of the movie was just so well put together, every shot planned and crafted like art.

    Interestingly, I am equally disturbed by characters that don't behave like people would IRL. You can't set a plot and then play with the people, making them do things that wouldn't be logically consistent with their already expressed tendencies.

  6. #16
    Member Fife's Avatar
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    Totally know this feeling

    My friends and I get out DVDs to watch every so often, and they always come with a running commentary. It's very entertaining. But only works with someone else who views movies like this.

    One of my friends has gotten into TV tropes recently too - which makes it more interesting because we can analyse the plot as we go.

    Of course, if there was someone in the room who didn't want the commentary, it could be extremely annoying :steam:

  7. #17
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    I dunno, I often *enjoy* nitpicking the movie for logic holes- even if my friends don't always find it as enjoyable to listen to a 15 minute speech about the values dissonance of Shrek, or like in the aforementioned Angels & Demons, the carmelengo basically had to have planned that Robert Langdon's timing to the dot of finding the "antimatter-bomb" (and who exactly would've taken the fall for trying to kill him, anyway, if he hadn't been so conveniently discovered by the Swiss Guard?). But they usually do.

    I mean, nothing's perfect, right? I don't think seeing the pieces, seeing the construction, necessarily ruins the whole- I mean, certainly I hope film majors still enjoy films.

  8. #18
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Okay, fiction movies are fake. We know this and shouldn't be shocked if they are not believable.

    However, one thing that really gets my goat is when people take a fiction movie and believe it - like conspiracy theories or 'science' fiction films. Take the Day after Tomorrow. You could swear everyone was talking about OMG TOMORROW THERE WILL BE AN ICE AGE!!!!!!! Another classic: People believing in the Jedi order or turning that into a cult or WHATEVER. Or people who believe that cows are purple. A further example: THE GOVERNMENT is working with ALIEN COMPUTERS to keep us SLAVES. Give me a break. It was a movie, not a scientific documentary film.

    Now, if you create a science fiction or conspiracy theory (or other) fiction film and that gets people THINKING about things within a REALISTIC context because they like the film, then it did its job. For example, The Matrix might bring up questions about authority figures and government; some people even interpret it in various ways. Or The Day after Tomorrow might prompt people to be more conscious of the environment, even if the premises of the film were scientifically not feasible. Or Star Wars might prompt people to look at the nature of good and evil, try to define what that means, and look at the instances of good and evil around them.

    OR They just might have a good time watching the films.

    It's all good. But then taking it at face value never is. Then you jump to the wrong conclusions.
    Then again, that has to do with PEOPLE being stupid, not movies.
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  9. #19
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Interestingly, I am equally disturbed by characters that don't behave like people would IRL. You can't set a plot and then play with the people, making them do things that wouldn't be logically consistent with their already expressed tendencies.
    This's sadly much more difficult to fix than one may think.

    Generally there's two primary methods of writing characters, from a puppetmaster point of view, where yeu dictate whot the characters do and manually try to make them do whot yeu want by pulling their strings, regardless of whether they're supposed to bend that way or not. The second major way is the channeler form, in which the character is designed as a living, breathing entity, almost a split section of the designer's mind, with independant will; this type is presented more as yeu drop a character in a situation, and see whot they do, because half the time yeu yeurself have no clue how they'll act. The downside, is that many people literally can never do this, it generally only works for 1-2 characters at a time at most, and it can cause major plot inconsistancies when the characters just wander off and do whotever they feel like doing regardless of whether they're supposed to for the plotline or not.

    The puppetmaster works exceptionally well for supporting characters, and when trying to manhandle a character to play the role yeu want them to, the downside is that we often get inconsistancies because they aren't a developed character, they have no mind, they just follow whot's needed to be done for the script. If yeu give them a background, the background history has NO EFFECT AT ALL on the character, because they won't react according to their background unless expressly told to each and every time. Yeu can have all the explainations yeu want for their actions, but in the end, yeu're the one pulling their strings, and they do whot they're told, no matter how silly or implausible it may seem. They literally DO NOT HAVE A CHARACTER, therefore they can't really act "out of character" because they never had one to start, they're just a puppet on strings, and the only reason they may seem otherwise, is if the puppeteer is careful to only pull the strings accordingly. This is painfully obvious with a bad writer, but even the masters can make major mistakes on this method, especially on secondary characters where this'll almost invariably be used, as it's hard to keep track of how they reacted in the past, and their entire history.


    On the other hand, we have the channeling as mentioned earlier... these are 'real' characters. They have thoughts, hopes, dreams, aspirations, a mind of their own. This makes them lively, and complex, they will do the unexpected and have a good reason for doing so, they'll be natural and fitting. Yeu don't pull the strings on these characters though, yeu can nudge them where yeu want them to go, but if they don't want to go there, there's not really a whole lot yeu can do to force them to short of removing every single other option out from under their feet. This often leads to a bizzare alternate problem... the character will go according to their own character but often the layout of the terrain around them will change in bizzare ways to force them to take a certain action, whether they want to or not. Yeu'll see this most blatantly obvious when trying to force a character to do something they don't want to do... make a character afraid of spiders and try to make them turn left down the road towards the haunted woods with spiderwebs everywhere... well, the puppeteer one will go down it, and maybe complain; the channeled characters says "screw that" and turns around and leaves, leaving the princess to die... except then a magical wall of trees suddenly appears blocking their escape path! Yeu get limited control over the character, and can only use their environment against them to make them follow the plot, and this is often done at gunpoint. Most of the truly great writers will have at least one, usually a small handful, of these types of characters in their storylines. Making every single individual character in a book or movie like this is impractical and impossible, and would be a nightmare to do anyway, since yeu'd be constantly forcing the environment to act in all sorts of wonky ways to force them to ever do anything yeu want them to (see the tv show Voyager for an example of where this runs rampant to the point of just being ridiculous).



    In the end, a great writer can compensate for this by elegantly either leading a character to do whot they want via subtle environmental changes, or they can puppetteer it very carefully, adding in enough backstory and explainations that people don't notice so much that the 'character' is little more than a mindless zombie on a very short leash.

    Done improperly, we see the crap that just irritates us to the core in movies and books, games, etc. , and sometimes things that just seem out of place but we can't quite place why.

    The hero that lets the heroine die for no real particular reason other than "oh yeah the plot needed it to happen", to the "zomg the warp drive's offline! AGAIN! Not that this happens EVERY SINGLE FUCKING EPISODE or anything".

  10. #20
    Member Fife's Avatar
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    Yay! Explanation

    That's really cool Katsuni. How are plots/sub-plots produced? It seems like there would be a similar necessity for internal consistency.


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