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  1. #1
    Widdles in your cream.
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    Default INTPs and their "principles"

    Firstly, I apologize if a thread has covered this particular topic. I did check the Typec search engine, but didn't find anything. I suppose I could have checked INTPc, but... *shudder*

    ANYWAY. I read in almost every INTP profile, related threads and other sources that INTPs have principles which they stand by. The thing is, I don't think I have any? At first I thought, "Oh crap, maybe I'm mistyped as an INFP?" but I read a couple of INFP threads in the Idyllic and found that I have very little values that i stand by. In fact, I feel embarrassed when I argue about my values because of their subjectivity. I feel vulnerable about them, so I roll over and brush them aside. Perhaps I do have principles, but because I don't know the definition of them, maybe I'm not aware of them.

    I'm not sure this constitutes as a principle; I go by the idea that if someone wants to speak to me, they will go up to me and speak to me. If they don't want to, then they won't. So I won't go up to someone if they aren't talking to me, because they clearly don't want to. Hopefully that was understandable?

    So, a couple of questions if you don't mind:

    1) What does it mean by an INTP having principles?

    2) If you're an INTP, do you have principles? If so, what are they?

  2. #2
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    You're what i'd call a real "Ti and Ne" user,
    I suspect the other guys are just frauds.

    Welcome in the 'family' though.
    Enjoy the free cupcakes
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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    ... In theory.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Fi has values.
    Ti has principles.

    Both are sets of "rules" developed to help make decisions.
    Both are developed based upon feedback from the enviornment.
    Fi "feels" others pain and out of avoidance develops "rules" to minimize that pain.
    Ti "thinks" others thoughts and develops "rules" to avoid logical fallacies that provoke internal frustration (Sound right? I lack Ti, it's a guess...)


    Fi "rules" work very well on very fuzzy, complex, people contamintaed problems where incertainity in human interaction has to be accounted for.

    Ti "rules" work very well on precise, concrete, well defined problems where answers are either CORRECT or INCORRECT -think of logical reasoning equations.

    however I am not an intp or an infp so I cant help with your two Q's. sorry!
    Last edited by sculpting; 08-27-2009 at 08:39 AM.

  4. #4
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Dont hurt others, mentally or physically, unless they deserve it. Its amazing how many people only follow this one when it suits them.

    Little white lies are fine but when it comes to serious stuff the truth is more important than my credibility.

    Im often lazy but if I have accepted a contract or made a promise I follow through with my duty.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  5. #5
    Widdles in your cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ne-Monster View Post
    Fi has values.
    Ti has principles.

    Both are sets of "rules" developed to help make decisions.
    Both are developed based upon feedback from the enviornment.
    Fi "feels" others pain and out of avoidance develops "rules" to minimize that pain.
    Ti "thinks" others thoughts and develops "rules" to avoid logical fallacies that provoke internal frustration (Sound right? I lack Ti, it's a guess...)


    Fi "rules" work very well on very fuzzy, complex, people contamintaed problems where incertainity in human interaction has to be accounted for.

    Ti "rules" work very well on precise, concrete, well defined problems where answers are either right or wrong-think of logical reasoning equations.

    however I am not an intp or an infp so I cant help with your two Q's. sorry!
    No, that was helpful. I was just confused about the whole "INTPs have principles, INFPs have core values". I just needed clarification as to what INTP principles stemmed from.

  6. #6
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I have principles and values. It's confusing sometimes.

    Without principles, I would do unneccesary harm to people.

    Without values, I would not be as optimistic/happy as I am.

    I make it a principle not to subdue to values too much in order to keep seeing reality to the best of my ability. (ie. not starting to believe in lies, or seek easy way outs without reason, etc.)
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    In one sense, principles and values are all part of rulesets.

    Rulesets (Ti or Fi) are like code that processes data.

    INFPs rulesets, as F values, seem more individually driven. I would like to say internally, but many of the rules are probably derived from external data (i.e., patterns of what seems to be true). However, even building a list of conscious personal values demands a prior judging mechanism to decide which rules are important.

    I think the difference here is the INFP, when constructing the ruleset, says, "Which values best explain this and are most meaningful to me?" and the INTP says, "Which principles seem to most reflect Reality (both inside and outside me) regardless of my involvement?" i.e., the latter is defined more by detachment and removal from the world to third-part overseer, the former by some sort of self-positioning to the world that demands meaningful engagement as a legitimate part of the truth.

    INTPs do have principles, that's why there are many threads here where INTPs are tearing apart someone's constructed arguments or thinking process; we use our principles as the rules by which we do that.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I don't see "principles" as things like personal directives for behavior like a Fi user may see them; they're little more than rules that I use for judging data. For example, "efficiency" of a process or system is something I think any good system or theory incorporates. If it's dirty or messy, I don't like it, doesn't fit my idea of what a good theory or system is.

    You'll notice that as Einstein got older, he had several ideas about the Universe that he found difficult to accept because they violated those principles. He hated Quantum Mechanics because he loved the idea of a deterministic universe, and he hated the idea of a dynamic universe, because he had always thought it eternal. It's why he invented things like the cosmological constant, simply to satisfy those principles.



  9. #9
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungemouse View Post
    Firstly, I apologize if a thread has covered this particular topic. I did check the Typec search engine, but didn't find anything. I suppose I could have checked INTPc, but... *shudder*

    ANYWAY. I read in almost every INTP profile, related threads and other sources that INTPs have principles which they stand by. The thing is, I don't think I have any? At first I thought, "Oh crap, maybe I'm mistyped as an INFP?" but I read a couple of INFP threads in the Idyllic and found that I have very little values that i stand by. In fact, I feel embarrassed when I argue about my values because of their subjectivity. I feel vulnerable about them, so I roll over and brush them aside. Perhaps I do have principles, but because I don't know the definition of them, maybe I'm not aware of them.

    I'm not sure this constitutes as a principle; I go by the idea that if someone wants to speak to me, they will go up to me and speak to me. If they don't want to, then they won't. So I won't go up to someone if they aren't talking to me, because they clearly don't want to. Hopefully that was understandable?

    So, a couple of questions if you don't mind:

    1) What does it mean by an INTP having principles?

    2) If you're an INTP, do you have principles? If so, what are they?
    1. For me, my principles are the rules which I follow in live and expect others around me to follow as well, at least if they want to be friends with me. If I break these rules myself I will feel like shit and try to make up. If others break my rules I will inevitably be very mad and likely cut them out of my life.

    2. I have these principles. Some important ones are: "Do not do to others what you would not like to be done to you." "Everybody is free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't infringe on other peoples lives in the process." And for myself: "I am the most important person in my world, everything is allowed for self-preservation." And "There is no objective wrong or right, there's merely different ways of doing things."

  10. #10
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    dont worry about not having any...they are the basis about what you may call a 'conscience'...they will be there when you need them

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